19 replies to this topic

[Whatever]

my aggression for a while. (It needs to go up)A question - should I be folding 58o in the SB with 3 limpers?Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Whatever is SB with [8d], [5h]. 1 fold, Whatever completes, BB checks.Flop: (5 SB) [Jc], [4d], [7s] (5 players)Whatever checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.Turn: (2.50 BB) [6h] (5 players)Whatever checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.I looked twice to make sure I wasn't missing anything LOL. What a beautiful board.River: (15.50 BB) [3d] (3 players)Whatever bets, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.Probably a good spot for a C/R there but I was pretty sure I'd get raised if I just bet out after all of that action on the turn.Final Pot: 17.50 BBResults in white below: Whatever has 8d 5h (straight, eight high). CO has 6c 7c (two pair, sevens and sixes). Outcome: Whatever wins 17.50 BB. The last thing I was expecting was for everyone to lay down on the river:I LOVE .5/1 :shock: Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converterPreflop: Whatever is BB with [Ad], [Ah]. 2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.Flop: (21.50 SB) [7d], [8s], [As] (5 players)Whatever bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.Turn: (16.75 BB) [2d] (4 players)Whatever bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO folds.River: (19.75 BB) [3d] (3 players)Whatever bets, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds.Final Pot: 20.75 BBResults in white below: Whatever has Ad Ah (three of a kind, aces). Outcome: Whatever wins 20.75 BB.

[Vade]

Lol. Aggression is helped by betting, raising, and folding, and is lowered by calling.What's the point of your preflop call with 58o. Dump that crap man.

[Swift_Psycho]

Hand #1: I'm not a limit expert, so I'll leave them to deciding whether or not it's okay to complete pre-flop. Flop is obviously fine. I actually thought the turn was interesting. The call/re-raise was an extremely lucky oppurtunity handed to you. I think I would have 3-bet there instead of calling two cold, but I don't think you played it terribly wrong either. And don't even think about trying to check/raise this river. You'll get plenty of sets and two pairs to call your bet, but they'll check behind on the river if you do. If they have the straight (a lone 5), it's likely that you will get the oppurtunity to 3-bet the river. Attempting to check/raise would probably only get you 2. Betting the river was absolutely correct.Hand #2: Seemed pretty simple to me, just press the raise button like crazy, right?

[Vade]

I'm not a limit expert either, I just play one on TV :PSeriously though, I like responding to these hands and seeing if I'm right. It's good practice since I'm still on NL for now

[KDawgCometh]

okay, I'm ready now. don't complete with any two cards. just a bad idea. if you have two or three limpers then you can complete with any two suited i a 1/2 blind structure. if there is only one limper, then unsuited broadways and high-mid uited conectors. If you have suited broadway cards, outside of J10s, then raise PF if there is one limper. don't complete with that junk again, que pasa?

[Vade]

KDawgCometh said:

Time to make a meaning less post. I'll take a look at this after I watch Garden State for the umpteenth time. I'll edit this when I get the chance

Saved for posterity :PGarden State was alright, but it's not THAT good lol

[Swift_Psycho]

KDawgCometh said:

Time to make a meaning less post. I'll take a look at this after I watch Garden State for the umpteenth time. I'll edit this when I get the chance

Good movie. I laughed a lot, though it's not technically a comedy.

[Whatever]

I downloaded the Garden State soundtrack off of Itunes I liked it so much. :shock: I will never ever complete with that crap again. The smooth calling instead of reraising was because there were so many people in the hand that I didn't want to risk folding them. The board was wonderfully unthreatening so I thought a slow play was appropriate. Was I wrong? Thanks for the help and I just thought the 2nd hand was typical funny PP.

[Eclypse]

Funny how everybody is jumping on him for completing his small blind with 58o in the first hand when the far bigger mistake was his betting and re-raising the coordinated flop with 5-way action in a huge pot in hand #2.He is making money for the drawing hands in that one—and any open-ended straight or flush draws are correct to bet and raise the flop because they are getting better odds for every bet that goes in the pot than their hands require.Even the CO is correct to call two cold with as little as a gutshot in that huge pot (getting 12.25-to-1 at that point and it’s only 10.75-to-1 to make it on the next card).The correct play would’ve been to check and call the flop with the intention of check-raising the turn if a safe card hit.But, anyway, congratulations on the monster pot. It most-likely would’ve been smaller (but the correct way to play it) if you did it the way I suggested above.

[cdddc75]

Eclypse said:

Funny how everybody is jumping on him for completing his small blind with 58o in the first hand when the far bigger mistake was his betting and re-raising the coordinated flop with 5-way action in a huge pot in hand #2.

And what exactly is wrong with jamming a set of aces against a coordinated flop? Make the draws pay while you have THE FREAKING NUTS.

[Eclypse]

cdddc75 said:

Eclypse said:

Funny how everybody is jumping on him for completing his small blind with 58o in the first hand when the far bigger mistake was his betting and re-raising the coordinated flop with 5-way action in a huge pot in hand #2.

And what exactly is wrong with jamming a set of aces against a coordinated flop? Make the draws pay while you have THE FREAKING NUTS.

The problem is that you are NOT making the draws pay, you are making them money. A flush draw for example is a 1.86-to-1 shot with two cards to come, so when there's 4 or 5 players calling all bets, he's getting at least 4-to-1 on those bets.

[Whatever]

Quote

And what exactly is wrong with jamming a set of aces against a coordinated flop? Make the draws pay while you have THE FREAKING NUTS.

Yea, I would be shocked if the correct play there was NOT to make them pay for being on a draw.I thought that was the whole idea of playing aggressively.

[cdddc75]

Eclypse said:

The problem is that you are NOT making the draws pay, you are making them money. A flush draw for example is a 1.86-to-1 shot with two cards to come, so when there's 4 or 5 players calling all bets, he's getting at least 4-to-1 on those bets.

As opposed to giving them infinite odds by being passive?I'll take my current nut hand with 7 outs on the turn + 10 outs on the river to fill up and jam it all day long, especially at Party .5/1. Fastplay is the new slow play.

[KDawgCometh]

Eclypse said:

Funny how everybody is jumping on him for completing his small blind with 58o in the first hand when the far bigger mistake was his betting and re-raising the coordinated flop with 5-way action in a huge pot in hand #2.

its not as bad as it looks. I'd be ramming and jamming there myself. You are pumping the pot since you have the beaset hand. Now granted a flush will com in 34% of the time, but you are forgetting boat redraw outs for you. so we are not losing this pot 35% of the time. You kind of left that crucial nugget of information out. With 5 players in the pot you have the big enough equity edge to ram and jam right here

[Eclypse]

Yipes, I misread the post. You guy’s are right, and I am wrong. Somehow I got it into my head that he was jamming with a pair of aces and not trip aces. Wow, how embarrassing (and scary). :oops: D'oh!However, you would want to jam the pot in this case not because you are trying to make the flush draws pay as cdddc75 is suggesting, but because you are at a huge equity edge (probably over 50%) with your trip aces as KDawg explained.

[cdddc75]

Eclypse said:

Yipes, I misread the post.  You guy’s are right, and I am wrong. Somehow I got it into my head that he was jamming with a pair of aces and not trip aces. Wow, how embarrassing (and scary). :oops:  D'oh!However, you would want to jam the pot in this case not because you are trying to make the flush draws pay as cdddc75 is suggesting, but because you are at a huge equity edge (probably over 50%) with your trip aces as KDawg explained.

KDawg's explanation was better than mine. I was trying to say that you want to make the flush draws pay, since they have odds to do so anyway.In other words, pot equity.:doh:

[rog]

The set makes no difference. Assume that As is a Ks then. I'm still jamming with my over-pair. You have 4 callers. Unless you lose 80% of the time you raise for value with this many callers every single time. I would think you're 40% to win or better on the flop, and at least 60% on the turn.

[KDawgCometh]

rog said:

The set makes no difference.  Assume that As is a Ks then.  I'm still jamming with my over-pair.  You have 4 callers.  Unless you lose 80% of the time you raise for value with this many callers every single time.  I would think you're 40% to win or better on the flop, and at least 60% on the turn.

the key is that it does matter in this case he does have a set, so if a flush comes, he has a redraw. whereaws if you have an overpair, then you don't have a full house redraw

[wrto4556]

85 was offsuit, right?Fold preflop.Everything else looks spot on...where would you not raise?

[rog]

KDawgCometh said:

rog said:

The set makes no difference.  Assume that As is a Ks then.  I'm still jamming with my over-pair.  You have 4 callers.  Unless you lose 80% of the time you raise for value with this many callers every single time.  I would think you're 40% to win or better on the flop, and at least 60% on the turn.

the key is that it does matter in this case he does have a set, so if a flush comes, he has a redraw. whereaws if you have an overpair, then you don't have a full house redraw

I realize the re-draw makes the set a stronger holding, but do you not raise for value anyway if that A on the board were a king?