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Getting Cute With Aces


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#1 Jadaki

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:34 AM

I'd like this discussion to center on post flop play, not the decision to limp AA preflop.1/2 NL, Live game 9 players. Game was loose until a few players moved to a different game and it has tightened up significantly.Hero is SB with AsAh, playing 450. Villain (MP3) is reasonable player who doesn't mind moving chips around, limps a lot of hands but usually gets away if he doesn't hit the flop or have a large draw, stack about 280. Hero's image it very tight at this point.--UTG folds, UTG +1 calls, Folds to MP3 who calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.Flop 5 players, 10.00 pot: 6s 5s 2dHero bets 11.00, BB folds, UTG+1 Calls, MP3 Calls, Button Folds.Turn 3 Players, 43.00 pot: 10hHero bets 18.00, UTG+1 folds, MP3 raises to 50.00, hero ?The turn bet looks small, but at this table that size bet was getting folded too a lot. Without raising my hand preflop there is no way he is putting me on AA which means he can be raising a wide variety of hands here. Raise, Fold, Call on turn?

#2 simo_8ball

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:46 AM

"Hero's image it very tight at this point"If you don't even raise with aces, I imagine it would be.

#3 mtdesmoines

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 07:48 AM

View PostJadaki, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 7:34 AM, said:

Raise, Fold, Call on turn?
Raise. Your hand is so under represented, he has a very broad range to play back at you with here. And don't limp AA no more. Limping sucks. Limping = playing tiny pots we win and huge pots we lose.BTW, is this PM? You are from Ames, right?
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#4 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:03 AM

Why was the topic was named "Getting Cute With Aces" instead of "Being ****ing Retarded With Aces?"I know you don't want people commenting on preflop, buy why on earth would you ever do this? It is really inexcusably bad for so many reasons IMO.I fold the turn. Your bet sizing was terrible on the turn here. There are a ton of draws out there and you got called twice on the flop. You NEED to bet more $$ on the turn. Yes, I read your comment at the end of the OP, but you still need to bet more $$. You said he's a tricky aggro player who will show up with a lot of hands. He can easily have 2 pair or one of many draws here. You're not in good shape against his range and I think the best move is abanding this hand and moving on to the next one.There are really so few ways to horribly misplay AA preflop and this is literally the 2nd worse example that I can think of. The thing that you could've done more wrong here was to be in the BB with AA and check your option.

#5 Webslinger516

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:05 AM

Playing AA out of position in a limped pot is so difficult. I'm lost on this hand.
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#6 simo_8ball

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:07 AM

Hmm... I have a feeling this could be one of the "I am villain" threads where you had Ts8s in MP3 and you lost.

#7 MikeBauer26

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:08 AM

Is raise/fold an option?My reasoning would be like this. Your bets are weak.Hand is definately underrepresented and It looks like you played a suited Ace-4 or Ace-5 or sth. But if you reraise now you turn your hand into a set or straight in villains head.Assume you raise to 150 and he comes over the top all-in, then what?After reading this a2nd time. I think I fold here...
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#8 Webslinger516

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:15 AM

View Postsimo_8ball, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 9:07 AM, said:

Hmm... I have a feeling this could be one of the "I am villain" threads where you had Ts8s in MP3 and you lost.
I think this is a great read.
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#9 TrueAce13

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:20 AM

View PostJadaki, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 8:34 AM, said:

I'd like this discussion to center on post flop play, not the decision to limp AA preflop.1/2 NL, Live game 9 players. Game was loose until a few players moved to a different game and it has tightened up significantly.Hero is SB with AsAh, playing 450. Villain (MP3) is reasonable player who doesn't mind moving chips around, limps a lot of hands but usually gets away if he doesn't hit the flop or have a large draw, stack about 280. Hero's image it very tight at this point.
That line says it all. We need to get out of the hand seeing how it was playedWe have no idea where the villain is in this hand, hence the reason it was just wrong to limp with AA. I know you have heard it enough and realize that is the main mistake in this hand, but it really can't be emphasized enough. Villain could have easily limped with 56s or something in that range, as well as 22, 55, 66. We have no information really where we started the hand out and are going in somewhat blind.
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#10 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 08:28 AM

View Postsimo_8ball, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 9:07 AM, said:

Hmm... I have a feeling this could be one of the "I am villain" threads where you had Ts8s in MP3 and you lost.
Yeah, good call. I was just blinded by the potential idocy of limping AA there and siezed my chance to mock it!

#11 dms26

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:16 AM

View Postsimo_8ball, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

Hmm... I have a feeling this could be one of the "I am villain" threads where you had Ts8s in MP3 and you lost.
I hope so, I can't see OP ever playing the hand this way.
QUOTE (CozMyn @ Sunday, March 8th, 2009, 5:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i tried to talk here about that program, the RNG , not to talk about when to accept all in without to see flop.
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#12 Jadaki

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:24 AM

View Postsimo_8ball, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 10:46 AM, said:

"Hero's image it very tight at this point"If you don't even raise with aces, I imagine it would be.
Third time having aces in the last 40 minutes, played huge pots (including preflop raising and re-raising) with it the last two times which is what built the stack from the original buy in. I choose to vary my preflop play in this instance which is why if I wanted "OMG RAISE PREFLOP RESPONSES" I wouldn't have even posted.

#13 Jadaki

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:24 AM

View Postmtdesmoines, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 10:48 AM, said:

BTW, is this PM? You are from Ames, right?
Yea Prairie Meadows, and no I live 6 blocks from the Casino not in Ames.

#14 Jadaki

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:25 AM

View Postsimo_8ball, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 11:07 AM, said:

Hmm... I have a feeling this could be one of the "I am villain" threads where you had Ts8s in MP3 and you lost.
Nope

#15 BaseJester

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:27 AM

View PostJadaki, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 7:34 AM, said:

I'd like this discussion to center on post flop play, not the decision to limp AA preflop.1/2 NL, Live game 9 players. Game was loose until a few players moved to a different game and it has tightened up significantly.Hero is SB with AsAh, playing 450. Villain (MP3) is reasonable player who doesn't mind moving chips around, limps a lot of hands but usually gets away if he doesn't hit the flop or have a large draw, stack about 280. Hero's image it very tight at this point.--UTG folds, UTG +1 calls, Folds to MP3 who calls, Button calls, Hero calls,
Geez. I can't think of anything to say that would seem stupid in comparison to that flat call. I bow to the hero's prowess at creative ineptitude.

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BB checks.Flop 5 players, 10.00 pot: 6s 5s 2dHero bets 11.00, BB folds, UTG+1 Calls, MP3 Calls, Button Folds.Turn 3 Players, 43.00 pot: 10hHero bets 18.00, UTG+1 folds, MP3 raises to 50.00, hero ?
****. Who ****ing knows? This is like the bridge analogy. (A person jumps off a bridge and wants to know what's the right thing to do half-way down. Well, wtf? Don't jump off the ****ing bridge.)I guess I push at this point. If the villain flatted the flop with a hand better than one pair on that board, good for him. I'll pay him off and then slap myself for playing the hand like a donkey.
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#16 Jadaki

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:27 AM

View Postdms26, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 1:16 PM, said:

I hope so, I can't see OP ever playing the hand this way.
Hey... I can't see how you went to war in that 08 hand with just TP and no low draw, but it worked out :club:

#17 Jadaki

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:29 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 11:03 AM, said:

I fold the turn. Your bet sizing was terrible on the turn here. There are a ton of draws out there and you got called twice on the flop. You NEED to bet more $$ on the turn. Yes, I read your comment at the end of the OP, but you still need to bet more $$. You said he's a tricky aggro player who will show up with a lot of hands. He can easily have 2 pair or one of many draws here. You're not in good shape against his range and I think the best move is abanding this hand and moving on to the next one.
Since you had the most thought out response, let me ask you this. What hands would you raise the turn with when a T hits against a guy betting out of the SB on a 652 flop twice?

#18 El Guapo

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:36 AM

View PostJadaki, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 11:29 AM, said:

Since you had the most thought out response, let me ask you this. What hands would you raise the turn with when a T hits against a guy betting out of the SB on a 652 flop twice?
Maybe 34suited or 2 pair. I am not really sure what else they could have here. I find it unlikely someone had JJ, or QQ or A10.

#19 krup24

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:36 AM

ok i think this is extremely simple. you limped and got a 5 way flop with AA ok whatever i've tried it on overly aggressive tables. you bet the turn and got raised substantially. i don't really care whats on the flop as this is hardly ever ever ever a one paired hand. being that you have the As this eliminates ATss and only other hands i could possibly see you ahead of all be it rarely are QTss and KTss but i think thats probably < 5% of the time.if i played this hand this way i could see a c/c turn and river if i wanted to continue but b/f is fine. i'm definitely quitting on turn and smacking myself for playing this way afterwards.
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#20 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 March 2008 - 10:38 AM

View PostJadaki, on Tuesday, March 18th, 2008, 11:29 AM, said:

Since you had the most thought out response, let me ask you this. What hands would you raise the turn with when a T hits against a guy betting out of the SB on a 652 flop twice?
I would raise the turn with anything that I slowplayed on the flop, like 2 pair, a set or a straight. The thing is though, me personally, I'd never slowplay those hands on that flop, I'd just raise with them.Realistically, since the turn didn't bring a 2nd flush draw, the only hand that he's likely raising here that's not an semibluff is Txss. He often thinks he made the best hand on the turn but has a ton of outs if he doesn't. I think he's got a hand like that (and should have as many as 15 outs) or a hand that beats one pair a majority of the time here.If you really did play AA like this, can you explain why you thought that the best play was to slowplay that hand OOP to the whole field, which was all but guaranteed to be 4 opponents that you had no information about their hands? Do you see why this is such a massive mistake? It's not mixing up your play, it's just playing badly. I know that you don't want to hear about preflop choices, but this hand would be much more interesting if you raised to $12 and got 4 callers and the hand played out like it did.




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