10 replies to this topic

[Pupsta]

for the last couple of weeks, i've been trying to adopt the constant standard raise (that's not the pot raise, since some people interpret this as a tell on FT). I've been using 3xBB if i'm opening the pot, usually add .75-1 bb for each person in the pot. it's been relatively successful for me, as i feel it's hard to get a read on me, but is this a sufficient amount? should i vary it between 3-4 randomly, or should i make a standard raise 4? it seems occasionally i'll get the blinds defending, and i wonder if it's because it's only 3x. the problem with 3.5 is that it looks like a pot bet, so i'm trying for that 'ideal number'.

[BuzzWorthy]

Depends on who you're playing against. If you're against good players, a 3BB bet will cause most players with bad hands to fold. Against a weak table, players may defend/call with weaker hands, so you may want to raise to 4BB. This will make it more likely that they fold, or at least you are getting a better price if they make the mistake of calling.

[Devilkin]

BuzzWorthy said:

Depends on who you're playing against. If you're against good players, a 3BB bet will cause most players with bad hands to fold. Against a weak table, players may defend/call with weaker hands, so you may want to raise to 4BB. This will make it more likely that they fold, or at least you are getting a better price if they make the mistake of calling.

I disagree with the statement about weaker players - you need a much larger raise to force them to fold. I regularly play in lower stakes S&Gs, and NL$25 tables, and a raise of 4xBB isnt near enough. At the NL$25 tables, a raise from the BB of .25 to $1 does next to nothing. A $2 leaves only the strongest hands.Dev

[dbdbarry]

I think that amount is about right. There are two ways to go about keeping your preflop raises a mysetry. You can always raise the same amount in the same positions, or you can always raise random amounts regardless of your hole cards. Both styles will keep your opponents guessing, it's up to which one you'd prefer. I like raising random amounts to spice things up.

[Pupsta]

btw, i'm talking strictly tournament play. cash games i know that 3xbb isn't sufficient, esp lower limits online.

[Devilkin]

Pupsta said:

btw, i'm talking strictly tournament play.  cash games i know that 3xbb isn't sufficient, esp lower limits online.

It also depends on the when you are in the tournament. Alot of players are very loose to start with and will call a 3xBB raise with a speculative hand.When you are near the bubble, and at the final table, things usually tighten up big time, and thats when a 3xBB means something. No one wants to be the last one to go out before making the money. (Believe me, I know how it feels to go out 51st when the top 50 are in the money - stupid wired jacks).Dev

[BuzzWorthy]

Devilkin said:

BuzzWorthy said:

Depends on who you're playing against. If you're against good players, a 3BB bet will cause most players with bad hands to fold. Against a weak table, players may defend/call with weaker hands, so you may want to raise to 4BB. This will make it more likely that they fold, or at least you are getting a better price if they make the mistake of calling.

I disagree with the statement about weaker players - you need a much larger raise to force them to fold. I regularly play in lower stakes S&Gs, and NL$25 tables, and a raise of 4xBB isnt near enough. At the NL$25 tables, a raise from the BB of .25 to $1 does next to nothing. A $2 leaves only the strongest hands.Dev

I can see your point, but he is looking for a consistent raising amount. 8BB seems too high, as he is only going to get called by strong hands, or someone is going to push all in. The point of being consistent is that you can sometimes raise on a speculative hand, such as 56s, or a strong hand such as a high PP, and no one can tell what you have. If are consistent, then you would raise 8BB with a 56s or a bluff. If you get called, you have thrown away your money. You will also not get enough callers over time to make this a profitable play. You may steal a lot, but you won't win many big pots. For every time your raise fails, you need to steal/win 8 bets.I'm sure there are some games where you could play extremely tight, always raise 8BB and very rarely bluff. I just don't think this is profitable long-term.The reason I recommended 4BB is that it makes them more LIKELY to fold - but if they don't - you have charged them more for this mistake.

[Absolute]

I really only go by a "standard" raise in MTTs.You don't want to give any extra information about your betting patterns to more skilled opponents, especially late in the tournament.in a side game you naturally have to mix it up based on how much is in the pot, position, etc

[Pupsta]

Absolute said:

I really only go by a "standard" raise in MTTs.You don't want to give any extra information about your betting patterns to more skilled opponents, especially late in the tournament.in a side game you naturally have to mix it up based on how much is in the pot, position, etc

that's basically all i play is MTT and SNG's. looking for the 'ideal' standard raise. NL cash games is a weakness, thus i avoid them, and i'm starting to play some limit, where i think i have a pretty standard raise

[gobears]

I play almost all MTTs also - 3xBB is my standard raise after about the first hour. I'll raise it up from 3xBB like you do for limpers that come into the pot first.In the first hour, I'll go up to 5xBB as with the blinds low, 3xBB doesn't really garner any respect.I always use a standard raise so that I can disguise my hand - Harrington in his book mentions that he will range his raises from 2x - 5x the BB.

[Pupsta]

gobears said:

I play almost all MTTs also - 3xBB is my standard raise after about the first hour. I'll raise it up from 3xBB like you do for limpers that come into the pot first.In the first hour, I'll go up to 5xBB as with the blinds low, 3xBB doesn't really garner any respect.I always use a standard raise so that I can disguise my hand - Harrington in his book mentions that he will range his raises from 2x - 5x the BB.

i might try something out in my next sng...5x for first 3 levels, 4x for next 3 levels, then 3x for the rest of the tourney. 5x makes sense with the blinds as low as they start.