nl home game tough spots: rag two pairs
Started by Wily, May 04 2005 07:46 PM
3 replies to this topic
#1
Posted 04 May 2005 - 07:46 PM
The college NL game I frequently play in (as do a few members of this forum) is wild, psychologically intense, and a lot of fun. Most of the players known solid poker theory, yet totally ignore it; a raise means suited connectors or mid/low pocket pair, a smooth call AA or QQ, a check-raise all in out of position on the river (when an opponent could just check through) means the nuts. Every hand is raised preflop, usually to 6-10X BB (blinds are .25/.5), and most players then shut down post flop even with a strong hand, hoping to trap. I'm usually the complete opposite of the LAGs there - I play tight preflop, limp with drawing hands/low pp's, bet big on flop to protect strong hands, and have been avoiding most of the slow play traps by checking through and not taking stabs at pots. I was the tightest player there, until a few games ago.I decided I wanted to change gears dramatically, because people were getting reads on me too easily. Whenever Yang raises preflop or calls a raise, they say, he's got a great hand - although they aren't sure which great hand it is, and that's how I make my money (Aseem's line). Usually, I'm up a few buyins at the end of the night, but I wanted to see if i could maintain this/improve on it while loosening up a lot preflop. I decided I wanted to play off the tight image I've established there, and try a few nights where I changed from TAG to LAG, playing almost any two to a raise, and throwing in an occasional bluff (which I usually never do). One thing to note - I would never try this crazy loosening of preflop requirements in an online NL game, but in this specific NL game with very deep stacks relative to blinds and mostly post-flop play, I think it was possible to win while playing like this.A few hands really astounded my opponents. Here are 4 of them where I played with rags to a raise and hit bad two pairs, with alternating good and bad play and results. They were all tough hands to play, and I'll put a few more different types of tough spots in the future. I'd love to find some comments from the NL players here about how I did, since I'm usually a limit player.Hand 1 - 9 handed game.Chief, a great LAG player, raises $3 from UTG. It's folded to me on the BB with 6
4
, and I immediately call :)Flop: A 6 4 rainbow.I check to chief, who immediately puts $10 in. I think for a while, raise all in, with over a $100 and covering his remaining $40. The entire table starts commenting that this is my one bluff of the night, and he thinks about for a long while, and lays down A 10. I have a feeling that if he had AK or AQ, he'd be forced to call; also that if I smooth called for one more cheap card and looked like I was on a draw on the turn, I could check raise him all in. Thoughts?Hand 2 - 9 handed game.J, a great regular who has developed recently a disturbingly strong read on me, raises $2.50 preflop with a stack of about $60 from MP. I call (with stack of about $120) with none other than 7 2 offsuit. C, a short stack on the dealer button, also smooth calls. Flop: 7 6 2 rainbow.J immediately bets $10, I smooth call, C raises all in for $5 more. J calls, and I try to push here but unfortunately his raise was too small for me to do so.Turn: 7 6 2 9, 2 diamonds.J bets out $20. I push all in here, and he thinks for a while, says something like "you have A 7", and calls my all in. River: 7 6 2 9 3.J turns over 89 suited for an OESD and a pair of 9's (he read me correctly that the flop hit me, although not so hard). C turns over KK (!). I take down the $140 pot with the Hammer
Hand 3: 9 handed.S, a passive player who usually loses, raises $3 from MP. J and two others call (a lot players call his raises, because they know they can get his stack if S gets tied to a hand and can't fold). I look down at 10
2
from the BB, and call.Flop: 10
5
2
. I check, S bets about $12 (he has 30 left), J and others fold to me. I decide to push all in here, thinking he has an pocket pair/overpair, and hoping I can push him off if the overpair has no hearts. He calls quickly, turning over J
J
. He catches a heart on the turn, and doubles up off me.I was thinking that I probably shouldve folded this one of the flop - my weak two pair with no hearts probably was against at least a flush draw, if not a made flush, and I probably could find better spots to take S's money than this. Thoughts?Hand 4: 4 handedChief raises $2.5 from UTG, and I'm the only caller from BB with 7
9
. Flop: 9
7
5
.I check, Chief bets $5, I raise for ALL of his remaining $30. He thinks about it for a long while, and calls with A
K
. He catches a spade on the turn and doubles up off me.I was thinking that this was just a bad spot for me - both of us had to make this play, and I don't think I wouldve laid down two pair if I had seen the turn spade. Thoughts?
#2
Posted 04 May 2005 - 09:21 PM
Quote
Hand 1 - 9 handed game. Chief, a great LAG player, raises $3 from UTG. It's folded to me on the BB with 6 4 , and I immediately call Flop: A 6 4 rainbow. I check to chief, who immediately puts $10 in. I think for a while, raise all in, with over a $100 and covering his remaining $40. The entire table starts commenting that this is my one bluff of the night, and he thinks about for a long while, and lays down A 10. I have a feeling that if he had AK or AQ, he'd be forced to call; also that if I smooth called for one more cheap card and looked like I was on a draw on the turn, I could check raise him all in. Thoughts?
Quote
Hand 2 - 9 handed game. J, a great regular who has developed recently a disturbingly strong read on me, raises $2.50 preflop with a stack of about $60 from MP. I call (with stack of about $120) with none other than 7 2 offsuit. C, a short stack on the dealer button, also smooth calls. Flop: 7 6 2 rainbow. J immediately bets $10, I smooth call, C raises all in for $5 more. J calls, and I try to push here but unfortunately his raise was too small for me to do so. Turn: 7 6 2 9, 2 diamonds. J bets out $20. I push all in here, and he thinks for a while, says something like "you have A 7", and calls my all in. River: 7 6 2 9 3. J turns over 89 suited for an OESD and a pair of 9's (he read me correctly that the flop hit me, although not so hard). C turns over KK (!). I take down the $140 pot with the Hammer
Quote
Hand 3: 9 handed. S, a passive player who usually loses, raises $3 from MP. J and two others call (a lot players call his raises, because they know they can get his stack if S gets tied to a hand and can't fold). I look down at 10 2 from the BB, and call. Flop: 10 5 2 . I check, S bets about $12 (he has 30 left), J and others fold to me. I decide to push all in here, thinking he has an pocket pair/overpair, and hoping I can push him off if the overpair has no hearts. He calls quickly, turning over J J . He catches a heart on the turn, and doubles up off me. I was thinking that I probably shouldve folded this one of the flop - my weak two pair with no hearts probably was against at least a flush draw, if not a made flush, and I probably could find better spots to take S's money than this. Thoughts?
Quote
Hand 4: 4 handed Chief raises $2.5 from UTG, and I'm the only caller from BB with 7 9 . Flop: 9 7 5 . I check, Chief bets $5, I raise for ALL of his remaining $30. He thinks about it for a long while, and calls with A K . He catches a spade on the turn and doubles up off me. I was thinking that this was just a bad spot for me - both of us had to make this play, and I don't think I wouldve laid down two pair if I had seen the turn spade. Thoughts?
#3
Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:14 PM
hand 1 - fine, though i might have just tripled the bet (raise to $30). if chief was not short-stacked, the push was bad. in that case, though, it was fine. the pot after your call would be $26, and a raise of $20 (half his stack) might be nice for value. he has the option of min raising all-in, and if he just calls, you can bet on the turn (and he should auto-call with top pair). it's true that sometimes he'll improve on the turn (5 outs), but it's still a +EV play. it's just personal taste... you can shut out his draw, or you can let him call and draw to 5 outs. either is +EV, and it's just about risk tolerance and variance.hand 2 - the delayed push on this ragged flop is fine, but i don't know your stack sizes so i don't really know if the push is correct. given what you wrote, you played this great.hand 3 - this hand was actually played fine, considering he was short-stacked. after his bet and your call, the pot would be around $40, and he had only $30 left, so a raise of $30 is actually fine. against an overpair + flush draw, you're a coinflip, so this is just a race, BUT if he had 9-9 or A-K or something similar with only one heart, you're ahead about 3-to-2, and you want to get all your money in. i think this was fine given the circumstances (the only really bad cases would be vs. 10-10/5-5/2-2, and you can easily rule out the 5-5 and 2-2).hand 4 - yikes, why the huge overbet?? the pot is $15 after your call, why raise $30? triple his bet or use a delayed bluff or something. i'm not a big fan of chief's call (but if he thinks he's up against top pair, even A-9 or so, he's between 45%-55% to win it, so it's not a bad call if he thinks even one overcard can save him), but still--don't put money into a dead pot. this was just bad luck, but i would either raise to $15/$20 or smooth-call with the intention of pushing on a safe turn.aseem
#4
Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:36 AM
This is just something I noticed...and I donīt know how you play so donīt take it the wrong way (nor do i know this game as well as you - obviously), but every hand you hit 2 pair you checked to the raiser and let him bet...I would advise, if you donīt want people to read you, try to mix this up more, lead sometimes first.The 4th hand for example, I would have lead because you mention Chief is more AGG? However I do understand that people may respect your bets more. Either way, if he re-raises you, you can of course push which he will most likely call since he would be commited. Or, for the 4th hand, you can check call him, and depending on what you have him on, if the T comes a blank, put him in there, as most people lay down flush draws with one to come. If it comes another spade and you think he has hit it, you can let it go. I think it just depends on your read and if you wanna gamble with a flush draw on the flop and think the ĻvillianĻwill as well. Of course you will win more than you lose in the long run, but sometimes I will wait till the turn to put in a bigger bet for a tougher decision.I thought you did well, but try to lead some more at those pots when you hit emī hard. Itīs a good way in No limit, espicially against AGG. players, to get emī to play back at you. But it also depends on how they view you as well. Good luck.- Jordan
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users









