Call Raise Or Fold

[Balloon guy 158]

You are seat 5Seat 1: 4 Seat 2: 5 Seat 3: 7 Seat 4: 3 You: K A K Seat 6: 8 Seat 7: A Seat 8: A Seat 4 brings inyou callSeat 6 callsSeat 7 foldsseat 8 callsSeat 1completesSeat 2 callsseat 3 foldseveryone calls Fourth StreetSeat 1: 4 2 Seat 2: 5 8 Seat 4: 3 A You: K A K 3 Seat 6: 8 9 Seat 8: A 10 Seat 8 betsSeat 1 raisesSeat 2 callsSeat 4 reraisesSeat 5???Lot of low action, lot of burned cards, I have blocker ace and could get half of a large pot.But I can also be stuck for a capped pot for 3 more streets.If I call can I still call down if I catch nothing on 5th and one of the low catches a scary straightening card?What if I catch a 3rd king but they catch good?Actually I would never call, either raise or fold this.

[checkymcfold 0]

i would fold third here. lots of lows are involved, and there's two aces behind you. that's not a good spot for KK at all, even if you have a blocker. big pairs want pots to be HU or 3way tops, and you don't have a good shot at isolating on this hand, imo.

[dms26 3]

I fold, I hate playing high only hands against multiple low draws. Someone is going to be freerolling on you by 5th or 6th even if you do still have the best hand.

[Balloon guy 158]

I guess I as thinking that the more people going low, the more likely there is not going to be a low. Although by 4th I guess them needing one card is hard to fade

[checkymcfold 0]

I guess I as thinking that the more people going low, the more likely there is not going to be a low. Although by 4th I guess them needing one card is hard to fade

this seems logical, i agree, but in practical terms, it's a bad idea to go with this line of thinking.

[dms26 3]

I guess I as thinking that the more people going low, the more likely there is not going to be a low. Although by 4th I guess them needing one card is hard to fade

go to hendonmob.com and play around with the stud8 calculator. I ran a 5 handed sample.Seat 1 - I gave him 4d,2c,3c,5hSeat 2 - 5d, 8c, 2h, 8sSeat 4 - 3h, Ad, 4h, 5cSeat 8 - Ah, Th, 9h, 7hyou - Ac, Kc, Kd, 3dYour equity against this range is 9.34% even though you currently have the best hand. They might be playing worse hands than this, but based on the action I have to give most of them credit for a decent hand.

[ahosang 0]

The idea that balloon guy brings up is one which is worth studying. The truth is that although it would seem that there would be more chance of lows failing to qualify, the small reduction in chance for that event doesn't compensate for the increase in chance that the hero is not going to scoop.Whether by virtue of splitting with low(and it may not necessarily be a big, worthwhile pot), or by being overturned for high, the fact is that KK just doesn't play well in these big fields. The fact that Aces-up is very unlikely due to your blocker and the 2 Ace upcards is a teaser. It's a very tempting teaser seeing the Aces dead, and hoping that Kings-up can win high, but a fold is just about right.By contrast, the game which we've christened 'Kingston Stud8' - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=119355 - is a fascinating game that brings more high hands into the game by virtue of the community card dealt on the second phase. You'd raise with that in Kingston Stud. People do just not play that many hands past 4th street in online stud8. Play Kingston Stud in your home games - I thoroughly enjoy it.Incidentally, and i'm slightly hijacking here(goes back to a thread where cappy, checky and i discussed some ideas behind profitable stud8), I believe the main obstacle to profit in stud8 is the reluctance of nitty players to ram-jam in the game. There are way too many instances online where people call when they should be raising their half(even when it's not a lock), in order to trap the player in the middle for multiple bets. I strongly believe that in the vast majority of cases, if you don't feel confident enough to raise, then you should just fold and get out(4th to 6th street). This applies as much to your opponents as much as to you, since it takes 2 players to ram-jam - 1 player cannot cap on his own...

[dawgfan98 0]

Call it. All the aces are dead (all 4 accounted for somewhere). Your pair of kings is most likely good right now. Also...there are a ton of low cards out there. It is just going to be that much harder for those guys to keep catching babies with all of them being gone. Plus it's still the little bet. You can see what develops on the next street. If something scary comes up, decide then. I'd keep an eye on the Ah 10h though. If the board doesn't seem to help your opponents on the next street see if a bet will get rid of some of them for you....this is going to depend on what limits you are playing though. Smaller limits-they are going to be lacing up their track shoes (to chase you down).

[ahosang 0]

I believe that a call here is bad poker - too passive with a hand that lacks any deception(you are showing a King and have a pair of Kings).A complete bet would be part of an aggressive table metagame/strategy, and a fold is tight but safe. I hate just calling with this hand.Balloon Guy said it at the end of the OP...

[Balloon guy 158]

Didn't remember exact cards but general hand played out with me folding.I just wondered if I was being too nitty since there was so many lows burned and the aces dead.I felt it was the right play, but I needed to hear why it was right.ThanksAnd one guy made a straight, but a king came which might have gotten to me, I suck at figuring out which card would have gone where after I fold.