94 replies to this topic

[FCP Bob]

I'll admit that I'm biased since I'm a Raptors fan and share season's tickets but Jose Calderon right now is playing as well as almost any other point guard in the league.

At the moment I put the top 3 point guards in the NBA as Paul, Nash and Deron Williams. I would put Calderon in a second group behind them along with Baron Davis and Billups. Yes I don't think Jason Kidd is a top point guard any longer since his shooting is so bad and his defense is also way below average.

Calderon over the last 12 games is shooting over 70% which is insane for a point guard.

Here are his stats on the season and overall NBA rank.

Assists: 8.9 per game - 5th in the NBA - As a starter he's averaging over 10 per game.
Assist to Turnover Ratio: 5.6 - 1st in the NBA by a lot
FG% : 55.0 % - 8th in the NBA and especially impressive for a point guard
3-Point % : 48.0 % - 4th in the NBA
Freethrow % : 92.4 % - 1st in the NBA

If you get a chance to watch the Raptors play he isn't spectacular but boy is he good and he seems to play his best when the game is tight as he seems to have no nerves.

[tskillz187]

I love Calderon. In fact I said he was way better than Ford before the season and was laughed off this very forum!

[Poppy_Hillis]

Yes I don't think Jason Kidd is a top point guard any longer his defense is also way below average.

Uhh, actually he's one of, if not the best defender at his position in the league.

Gotta love Raptor fans, if they were as good as they're fans think they are they would win 75 games every year.

I've always liked Calderon, never understood why Cleveland never got him, but you're putting him in the same group as Baron Davis and Chauncey Billups!!?? Come on, that's an insult to those guys.

[FCP Bob]

Uhh, actually he's one of, if not the best defender at his position in the league.

Gotta love Raptor fans, if they were as good as they're fans think they are they would win 75 games every year.

I've always liked Calderon, never understood why Cleveland never got him, but you're putting him in the same group as Baron Davis and Chauncey Billups!!?? Come on, that's an insult to those guys.

Watch a game with Jason Kidd. He is not a good defensive point guard. He's a pylon and the quicker guards just go around him. He has this undeserved rep as a good defensive player because he's an excellent rebounder and he takes chances and gets some steals in the lanes. He can't stop dribble penetration at all any longer and being able to guard your own man is the most important defensive skill for a point guard.

I'm very realistic about how good the Raptors are. They're not close to being a championship team as they don't rebound well and have some other areas that need improving before they can challenge for that. I've been watching NBA games since Bob MacAdoo was a Buffalo Brave and they were playing regular season games here at Maple Leaf Gardens.

As for Calderon, have you actually seen a game recently ? Listen to the comments from the Coachs on the other teams after a game and you may change your mind. The guy is one of the main reasons that Spain won the World Championships, he's cool as a cucumber, never turns the ball over, is shooting the ball as well as anybody and can take his man off the dribble and finish at the rim with either hand.

Calderon is only an average defender but then again so is Steve Nash.

Don't just go by player's reputations, watch some games and look at how they're playing.


Edit: This highlight pretty much sums up Kidd's defense. Look how far off Calderon he's playing because he can't stop other point guards from getting around him and he has to try and go under all the screens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klBGYbvC0VM...feature=related

[tskillz187]

The problem with the Raptors IMO is Bosh just isn't a #1. They need a better first option. Every other part is there but they need Bosh to either improve a little or I think they'll never get to the finals.

[Jadaki]

The problem with the Raptors IMO is Bosh just isn't a #1. They need a better first option. Every other part is there but they need Bosh to either improve a little or I think they'll never get to the finals.

You might be right about Bosh, but they could end up being a team like the Pistons where they have 5 really solid players and no true superstar and do just fine.

[Poppy_Hillis]

Watch a game with Jason Kidd. He is not a good defensive point guard. He's a pylon and the quicker guards just go around him. He has this undeserved rep as a good defensive player because he's an excellent rebounder and he takes chances and gets some steals in the lanes. He can't stop dribble penetration at all any longer and being able to guard your own man is the most important defensive skill for a point guard.

I'm very realistic about how good the Raptors are. They're not close to being a championship team as they don't rebound well and have some other areas that need improving before they can challenge for that. I've been watching NBA games since Bob MacAdoo was a Buffalo Brave and they were playing regular season games here at Maple Leaf Gardens.

As for Calderon, have you actually seen a game recently ? Listen to the comments from the Coachs on the other teams after a game and you may change your mind. The guy is one of the main reasons that Spain won the World Championships, he's cool as a cucumber, never turns the ball over, is shooting the ball as well as anybody and can take his man off the dribble and finish at the rim with either hand.

Calderon is only an average defender but then again so is Steve Nash.

Don't just go by player's reputations, watch some games and look at how they're playing.
Edit: This highlight pretty much sums up Kidd's defense. Look how far off Calderon he's playing because he can't stop other point guards from getting around him and he has to try and go under all the screens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klBGYbvC0VM...feature=related

You know that play was Mikki Moore's fault and not Kidd's right? Whether a player goes under or over a screen roll is not a decision by the player. In the Nets case they are ultra thin up front and have to stop penetration first and foremost. Wait a minute so you're saying Jason Kidd is a below average defender and Steve Nash is average? So Steve Nash is a better defensive player than Jason Kidd? I don't think I need to say anymore.

I like Calderon, but he's not close to Baron Davis or Chauncey Billups.

[Jadaki]

I like Calderon, but he's not close to Baron Davis or Chauncey Billups.

In all fairness, I think Billups is way overrated. He is kind of riding the reputation he made in one postseason and really hasn't been close to staying at that elite level since, even though he is pretty solid.

[FCP Bob]

You know that play was Mikki Moore's fault and not Kidd's right? Whether a player goes under or over a screen roll is not a decision by the player. In the Nets case they are ultra thin up front and have to stop penetration first and foremost. Wait a minute so you're saying Jason Kidd is a below average defender and Steve Nash is average? So Steve Nash is a better defensive player than Jason Kidd? I don't think I need to say anymore.

I like Calderon, but he's not close to Baron Davis or Chauncey Billups.

Have you watched any Nets games this year ? The play was just something I saw that showed how far off the other point guards Kidd is playing because he no longer has any quickness, my focus wasn't how he handled the screen but the fact he was playing so far off a player like Calderon who is a good shooter. He's no longer a good defensive point guard. I read a quote on a basketball board that's I'll paraphrase. All basketball players are either overrated or underrated based on reputation. Kidd's reputation as being a good defensive point guard is no longer earned on the floor.

Nash and Calderon are not good defensive players but they are superior offensive players to Kidd and that's why they are more effective today than he is.

I love what Baron Davis and Chauncey Billups bring to the table. I have a friend who thinks that Billups is overrated but I don't agree and have that argument with him all the time. You obviously haven't watched the Raptors and Calderon play enough over the last two months for you to say that Calderon isn't in the same class as they are right now. We'll see if he's able to keep it up in the playoffs and that will be the true test.

The guy is flat out doing things with his efficiency at shooting and protecting the ball that are pretty much unheard of. Think about it, a point guard who is shooting 55% while the next best in the league is Williams at 51.9 % and Nash at 50.8% and those are the only 3 over 50%. Kidd is at 36.8% and Davis 42.4% for comparison.

I'm not saying he's the MVP or best in the league or anything stupid like that. What I am saying is that he's turned into an elite point guard and is among a large group of really good point guards that are in the league right now.

[Poppy_Hillis]

You obviously haven't watched the Raptors and Calderon play enough over the last two months for you to say that Calderon isn't in the same class as they are right now. We'll see if he's able to keep it up in the playoffs and that will be the true test.

You don't become an elite player by playing well over a 2 month stretch in the regular season.

[Jadaki]

You don't become an elite player by playing well over a 2 month stretch in the regular season.

True

But you can play your way into a much better contract which is exactly what he is doing.

[Cappy37]

Calderon is an immense talent, and blossoming quite nicely.

Steve Nash is to defense as FEMA is to flood relief.

Jason Kidd's help on the perimeter was Vince freakin' Carter. And I doubt half the people reading this forum could name two guys in the paint that Kidd had to funnel into when he gambled for steals or over-commited.

[pezeveng]

his assist-turnover ratio is insane.

[outsider13]

I love Calderon, but he stunk up the Garden tonight.

[jayboogie]

I'd say Calderon is a Top 10 Pointguard in the L. I believe he would be able to solidify himself as a Top 5 PG if he could continue to improve and just get used to playing big minutes and being more assertive. He's become an absolutely amazing shooter and is one of the best finishers at the rim for points guards as well. The guy is absolutely lights out with his pull-up and he makes a ton of shots in short clock scenarios. His A/TO ratio is insane, his only real weakness is his Defense. I think it's awful and he gets blown by on a consistent basis by pretty most guards. Part of this is because he's big for a point and is just not very gifted with lateral speed. He needs to learn to play better angles though and it's something he can improve on more than likely.

Comparing him to a Billups or Baron is no insult to those guys, he's pretty close to them if not on their level. His game is very much like Stockton in the way he plays. He's the closest player to Stockton that has come into the League. I'm not saying he's on that level, but his style of play is similar. It's easy to tell that Calderon could put up similar scoring numbers if he chose to do so. If you can score 13 ppg at 54%, it would not be all that difficult to score 20 ppg at a 42% clip. All Calderon would need to do is shoot more and he would have the same numbers as Baron and Billups. Of course, if you have seen Calderon play, this is the last thing he cares about. He runs the team amazingly and scoring is always secondary.

[jayboogie]

The problem with the Raptors IMO is Bosh just isn't a #1. They need a better first option. Every other part is there but they need Bosh to either improve a little or I think they'll never get to the finals.

I really don't agree with this. Bosh is a legit #1 option and easily a top 15 player in the League, maybe even top 10. If Bosh is not a #1 option, tell me what #2 option in the League is better than Chris Bosh? Bosh is a perennial All-star, he's really improved his D this year and continues to get better every year. He would also have even better #'s if he didn't start the year off slow with injuries, but 23/9 is nothing to scoff at anyways. He's also young, still only 23 and has his prime years ahead of him.

[Jadaki]

If Bosh is not a #1 option, tell me what #2 option in the League is better than Chris Bosh?

Manu Ginobli.... sploooooggggeeeeee


- Tskillzzz

[jayboogie]

Manu Ginobli.... sploooooggggeeeeee
- Tskillzzz

You'd rather have Manu than Bosh?

[FCP Bob]

Manu Ginobli.... sploooooggggeeeeee
- Tskillzzz

I'd argue that Manu is the Spurs best offensive player and that Duncan isn't clearly a superior offensive player to Bosh. I'm not trying to bash Duncan with those comments but that's how highly I think of Manu.

Bosh is quicker than Duncan and has a better outside shot. Duncan is a better Post scorer and passer and of course the refs cheat so much for him that it makes him even more effective.

[Poppy_Hillis]

I'd say Calderon is a Top 10 Pointguard in the L. I believe he would be able to solidify himself as a Top 5 PG if he could continue to improve and just get used to playing big minutes and being more assertive. He's become an absolutely amazing shooter and is one of the best finishers at the rim for points guards as well. The guy is absolutely lights out with his pull-up and he makes a ton of shots in short clock scenarios. His A/TO ratio is insane, his only real weakness is his Defense. I think it's awful and he gets blown by on a consistent basis by pretty most guards. Part of this is because he's big for a point and is just not very gifted with lateral speed. He needs to learn to play better angles though and it's something he can improve on more than likely.

Comparing him to a Billups or Baron is no insult to those guys, he's pretty close to them if not on their level. His game is very much like Stockton in the way he plays. He's the closest player to Stockton that has come into the League. I'm not saying he's on that level, but his style of play is similar. It's easy to tell that Calderon could put up similar scoring numbers if he chose to do so. If you can score 13 ppg at 54%, it would not be all that difficult to score 20 ppg at a 42% clip. All Calderon would need to do is shoot more and he would have the same numbers as Baron and Billups. Of course, if you have seen Calderon play, this is the last thing he cares about. He runs the team amazingly and scoring is always secondary.

Whattya know, another Raptor fan. I would have bet money you were from Toronto before I looked.