87 replies to this topic

[checkymcfold]

so here's the deal:i'm a grad student that pays his tuition and living expenses with online poker. i play about 15 hrs/wk and win, on average, about 4000 dollars a month (significantly more lately, since i've finally decided to increase limits by saving my bankroll). i play a combination of multitable tourneys (buyins of $30+) and 3/6 or 5/10 nl he cash games, usually dominating both quite regularly.but, in just a couple of days, i've managed to nearly wipe out my bankroll. i'm down to about 1700 dollars (though i have another 4k saved for "emergencies," of the poker or life variety) after safely maintaining a roll of around 4000 dollars after withdrawals for a month or so since i moved up to my present limits. and seriously, it's all bad beats. i've had three sets run out by pairs that hit running draws, to the tune of about 1500 bucks. i can't hit a draw of my own to save my life. i've been hit in my regularly-won tourneys by ace-high calling me down and rivering me repeatedly. as far as i can tell, i am NOT falling away from my A-game. my money goes in with the best hand every time, but i'm still stuck in a bad ****ing run.now i'm not trying to whine, and that's NOT the point of this thread. what i'm curious about, and i'm asking the higher-limit players here that have significant experience where i play, is whether horrible swings like this are regular or i should take some time off and live off my savings for a bit. i realize i may just be in the middle of the bad run that everyone inevitably has, but i just want some confirmation of this so that i know i'm gonna pull through this in the end. i have over two months of living expenses saved up, which is standard, but i don't want to dip into it if i don't have to.anyway, i just want thoughts, or advice, or consolation. something. poker's got me by the nuts lately, and i look to you all. help?and just in case anyone knows me, i'm checkymcfold on pokerroom.

[remi983]

Its a phenomenon called going bad. It eventually happens to all regular players. There is know way to fight it. Just take a break, that's all there is to it. Don't play for a couple of weeks, and take some time to reflect on your game. Fix your weak spots; I know you're getting drawn out on, but even world-class players work on leaks in their games. The important thing is to stay positive. Do not play again until you are CERTAIN that you will win and promise yourself that you will play the Best poker that you know how to play.I had a similar bad run in late March. I was playing 10/20 and couldn't win a pot to save my life- top 2, top set were getting drawn out on all the time and I couldn't hit any draws. So I took the first week of April off and after reflecting on my game, made a few minor adjustments. For the last part of April, I won 10 out of 12 sessions. - I got my mojo back, and was the big winner in the game every time.The important thing to remember is not to fight it - just relax and stay away from the tables for a little while. Dont get in a hurry, the game is not going anywhere. And, I'll repeat: Only play when you are CERTAIN that you will win and promise yourself that you will play the Best poker that you know how to play.Good luck.

[JimD82]

my advice is move down in limits. You'll probably crush them and although it won't be the money you're used to, it'll be something. In addition it should help your confidence and get you back into the swing of things. Even if you're bad luck continues for a little while it won't be as harmful.

[ThatPkrGuy]

I used to be a NL player and thats all i was ever really interested until i decided to start playing poker for most of my monthly bills. Then i realized that Limit Poker is simply a more stable way of life. I noticed above that you said you played in the 5/10 and 3/6 NLHE games and crushed them on a regular basis. Thats quite an accomplishment in itself, but if you were in the same scenario with limit the swings wouldn't be nearly as big. They draw out on top set then you only lose 150ish at 10/20 were you could easily lose your entire stack of 500ish at NL....granted the swings aren't that big on the upside either. But being that poker is you source for living i would recommend joining the others in your situation and make Limit your main game. Grind it out!Just my opinions

[JistTheFist]

I think you're playing above what your roll can handle... if you're down to 1700 you definitely should not be playing 5/10 nlhe... move down in limits and and start playing some stt's to get your confidence and bank back up.

[checkymcfold]

JistTheFist said:

I think you're playing above what your roll can handle... if you're down to 1700 you definitely should not be playing 5/10 nlhe... move down in limits and and start playing some stt's to get your confidence and bank back up.

sorry, i didn't mean to imply that i didn't move down in limits when my roll fell so low. i know better than to overplay a bankroll, and i did manage to lose the last 1500 or so playing 2/4 nl and some tourneys....re: limit, i don't know that that's my game. i mean, i know the math perfectly and i do win regularly at limit, but it's not my real cup of tea. my game is sensing weakness and taking advantage of it, which doesn't work very well in mid-limit HE. i'm fine with playing mechanically, but i really am interested in improving my game constantly, and i think that most of what's lacking is my reading ability, which is not much improved by limit poker.and yeah, from the advice above, i think i'll take a little while off the big games and just have some fun messing around with some low limits and maybe even work on my "thesis," whatever that is :-) .thanks, guys. i appreciate the advice. just out of curiosity, though, are there any other FCPers that play higher-limit games on pokerroom? i'd definitely be into getting some games together...

[Greg Kelley]

No Limit Hold em is an extremely volitile game. Yes, it IS possible to be a regular winner and make some real coin. However, most pro's (and that is what you are if you earn your living from poker) do not play no limit as their primary game. Take the advice of some of the other posters. Play Limit. Grind it out. You said that its "not your cup of tea." Well, I don't know many people that work in factories that would say that their job is their cup of tea. It's a job. You have to think of it that way. You can still use those keen senses in limit poker. And if you are a consistent winner in NLHE games, you should be able to make the proper adjustments to your game to be a winner in limit. Or, you can go get a job.Search around. Ask people...limit or no limit as a pro? I beleive you will find most people will steer you to limit.Just my thoughts....Greg

[dead money]

since when did playing 5-10 nlhe become a higher limit game? i would place it in the middle limit games.

[checkymcfold]

dead money said:

since when did playing 5-10 nlhe become a higher limit game? i would place it in the middle limit games.

heh, as much as i appreciate the antagonism, i'm using pokerroom-speak. there are only two higher limit games that EVER are going at pokerroom, and most of the people that post here aren't ever talking about anything higher than 1/2 or 2/4 limit HE. of course i fully acknowledge that i don't play the highest NL games in existence, jesus.and to the others, yes, i DO win at limit (the regular 1.5-2.5 BB/hr at 5/10 and 10/20). however, i am currently more interested in improving my reading skills, which is better achieved at NL. since i (well, until recently) win at both limit and NL, i may as well play NL, right?

[JistTheFist]

checkymcfold said:

since i (well, until recently) win at both limit and NL, i may as well play NL, right?

not necessarily... NL is going to have a MUCH MUCH greater variance, if you'd rather be a consistent winner just multi-table a few limit games... You have to know how to play limit games as compared to NL so I wouldn't just tell you to switch cuz if it's not your game then you won't play it with the right mindset... but if you really are a typical 1-2.5BB/hr limit player... then why not go into that to build your bankroll back up?just looks like an eaiser way to rebuild without going broke to me. you don't want to play NL with "scared money" so don't play while your stack is so low... you can get plenty of reading ability worked at limit tables... especially cuz you know you can call an opponent down on the riv just to see whether or not your read was correct.

[wannabe]

heres an idea.... have a sufficient bankroll for playing 5/10 NLHE... you should have a minimum of 15 buyins... or 10,000... if you're playing 3/6, you should have a minimum of 6K... This is to avoid certain terrible swings such as this... I'm sorry, but 4K just isn't enough.. I've gone on 5K downswings many times.

[Fourhead]

I've just been through one of these periods and it's horrible. The key thing is, as someone already suggested, to immediately take a break and reflect on why you're leaking. It took me four weeks and two breaks to figure out what my leak was and to get back in the right mental state.I wrote myself a long "losing streak instruction book" for next time this happens.Most important - never ever play when angry, irritated or in "gonna-win it-back"-mode.

[jayboogie]

I know how you feel buddy. I've been on a similar bad run, I've had 7 straight losing sessions and it feels like you can't do anything about it. The cards just fall how they fall and nobody has control over it and that's just something you have to accept as a poker player. You can try everything and still can't get out of the funk, it's just variance at work. You should make sure it's because of luck and that you were ahead on the hands you've been losing and not the other way around. The strange thing for me is I feel like I'm playing great poker during this losing streak and I'm avoiding lots of situations where I would have lost even more money. I'm down 150 big bets or so, but I still feel like I'm playing better than I have before. I feel like my game is improving even though I'm losing a ton of money. When your losing a lot, you should judge how you play by if losing that amount was the best you could have hoped for or did you overplay your hands and lose more than you should have? Yes, it's frustrating as hell, believe me I know, but it's just something all p0ker players have to deal with. For me, I never really considered taking a long break or anything like that. When I've done a lot of losing for the session, I'll quit for the day because I just don't feel like playing any more, but the next day is a new day, so I always see that as a fresh start. I hope the poker gods are kind to me tomorrow, I sure do need it

[Gallo]

so here's the deal:
i'm a grad student that pays his tuition and living expenses with online poker. i play about 15 hrs/wk and win, on average, about 4000 dollars a month (significantly more lately, since i've finally decided to increase limits by saving my bankroll). i play a combination of multitable tourneys (buyins of $30+) and 3/6 or 5/10 nl he cash games, usually dominating both quite regularly.
but, in just a couple of days, i've managed to nearly wipe out my bankroll. i'm down to about 1700 dollars (though i have another 4k saved for "emergencies," of the poker or life variety) after safely maintaining a roll of around 4000 dollars after withdrawals for a month or so since i moved up to my present limits.
and seriously, it's all bad beats. i've had three sets run out by pairs that hit running draws, to the tune of about 1500 bucks. i can't hit a draw of my own to save my life. i've been hit in my regularly-won tourneys by ace-high calling me down and rivering me repeatedly. as far as i can tell, i am NOT falling away from my A-game. my money goes in with the best hand every time, but i'm still stuck in a bad ****ing run.
now i'm not trying to whine, and that's NOT the point of this thread. what i'm curious about, and i'm asking the higher-limit players here that have significant experience where i play, is whether horrible swings like this are regular or i should take some time off and live off my savings for a bit. i realize i may just be in the middle of the bad run that everyone inevitably has, but i just want some confirmation of this so that i know i'm gonna pull through this in the end. i have over two months of living expenses saved up, which is standard, but i don't want to dip into it if i don't have to.
anyway, i just want thoughts, or advice, or consolation. something. poker's got me by the nuts lately, and i look to you all. help?
and just in case anyone knows me, i'm checkymcfold on pokerroom.

I think it's cause you suck.
[X] IMO

[zander24]

I think it's cause you suck.
[X] IMO

[x] read the whole thread
[x] thought it was recent..
[x] imo

[Merby]

so here's the deal:
...

So how did that downswing work out for you?

[]busto

Remember that if that ever happens again, don't do what your avatar is doing. It's definite -EV.

[psujohn]

I was like - since when does Jamie play NL? Then I noticed the date.

[nutzbuster]

WTF?

[checkymcfold]

lol i forgot about this run in 2005. i remembered 2005 like it was all gold, haha. for the record:

-i got back to a 20k roll after this, then went busto in 2006 cuz of bad habits at 25/50 LHE.
-3/6 and 5/10 NLHE were shots at great games on pacific poker way back when, 2/4 was my regular game for that period.
-gallo sucks ginormous donkey balls.
-scott missed the bump.
-NLHE sucks now. so does grad school.
-where did jayboogie go?

[troyomac]

How does someone instantaneously go from making 4k a month to having a 1700 roll?