61 replies to this topic

[Abbaddabba]

4/5s in the SB. called around to an MP who, as far as i can tell only raises with class 1 hands (this is, as everyone at the table can tell, his first time playing and he is extremely passive). 3 cold callers to me, and i call, as does the BB and then some other brilliant woman who limped in early position folds.The flop is 6,7,8 - rainbow.I bet, BB raises, the PF raiser 3bets, some new lady caps it. In a competent game i would call and check/fold if the board paired up.The turn is a 6. ( 6,6,7,8 )The BB checks, the PF raiser bets, new lady calls, i call and BB calls.River brings a 7. ( 6,6,7,7,8 )The BB checks, the PF raiser bets, the new lady looks frustrated as hell and calls and before i can act, the BB mucks his cards.So im facing a reluctant caller, and the PF raiser.Any guesses as to what they had, and what would you do?

[wrto4556]

I call. Someone has an 8, someone has an overpair, and maybe someone has a full house. It's worth calling down in this big pot. I doubt you're good 2/3 of the time so a raise is out of the question.I think I would have led the turn, though.

[JFarrell20]

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

[cdxx]

JFarrell20 said:

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

there were like 5 people in the pot, a call with small suited connectors is fine. the thing i don't like about it is in this big a pot anyone else would be calling with other suited connectors like 67, 87, 65, or T9. two pair on the board is tough though. the turn looks like a call down play unless either either street is reraised. the river is normally a fold, but with the large pot, maybe a call just to see. i'm guessing the unhappy lady has T9s. PF raiser has some premium pair, BB has 87s.

[Abbaddabba]

PF raiser has kings.The lady has 5/9off - hot shit.The big blind folded top pair top kicker.

[KDawgCometh]

JFarrell20 said:

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

obviously you still haven't learned implied odds. he's getting 12-1.5 on his call, which means yes he can successfully call. not to mention that the BB will call more then enough plus the limpers to where he's getting 17-1.5 on his call. How can you not call there? In a multiway pot he's getting way more then enough to call this. easy PF call. As far as the river goes, just call, you'll be good more then you aren't

[Abbaddabba]

Oh yeah, and i called.The guy with the pocket kings was hilarious. He looked a bit confused by what happened when his kings didnt hold up. The hand right before it when i was in the BB, i had 6/2off and flopped two pair. He and I raised back and forth all the way to the river, and he ended up _calling_ me with (no joke) jack high. There was no apparent flush draw or straight draw for his hand either.

[Absolute]

raise the turn

[JFarrell20]

KDawgCometh said:

JFarrell20 said:

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

obviously you still haven't learned implied odds. he's getting 12-1.5 on his call, which means yes he can successfully call. not to mention that the BB will call more then enough plus the limpers to where he's getting 17-1.5 on his call. How can you not call there? In a multiway pot he's getting way more then enough to call this. easy PF call. As far as the river goes, just call, you'll be good more then you aren't

How is this implied odds? He doesn't even know what the flop is yet. Pot odds sure, not implied odds.What kind of flop do you want to see here with a call of 1.5 cold and the BB yet to act?Short of A23...I'm not too excited in the prospects of this flop. Even landing a flush isn't a guaranteed win with this many people in. I just don't see how calling a raise here is +EV.Please explain if I'm missing something (anybody, not just KDawg, the guy who bought a voodoo doll of me and ritualistically pierces it nightly)

[RonBurgundy]

because it's a suited connector, and str8s and flushes get paid off in pots this large

[Absolute]

JFarrell20 said:

KDawgCometh said:

JFarrell20 said:

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

obviously you still haven't learned implied odds. he's getting 12-1.5 on his call, which means yes he can successfully call. not to mention that the BB will call more then enough plus the limpers to where he's getting 17-1.5 on his call. How can you not call there? In a multiway pot he's getting way more then enough to call this. easy PF call. As far as the river goes, just call, you'll be good more then you aren't

How is this implied odds? He doesn't even know what the flop is yet. Pot odds sure, not implied odds.What kind of flop do you want to see here with a call of 1.5 cold and the BB yet to act?Short of A23...I'm not too excited in the prospects of this flop. Even landing a flush isn't a guaranteed win with this many people in. I just don't see how calling a raise here is +EV.Please explain if I'm missing something (anybody, not just KDawg, the guy who bought a voodoo doll of me and ritualistically pierces it nightly)

It *is* implied odds.Implied odds exist to make up for small variances in pot odds. For example, you want to call PF with this hand even if the pot odds might not justify it (which they do, so I dont even understand the argument you are trying to make)The implied odds of a hand like this pre-flop are strong because of the action you are going to get if you hit a good flop with all the PF aggression.Why is that so complicated for you?

[JFarrell20]

RonBurgundy said:

because it's a suited connector, and str8s and flushes get paid off in pots this large

but it's a crappy low suited connecter, that, even if it hits a flush or straight... may not hold up. It's just a dangerous hand to chase, really.JMHO.

[Absolute]

JFarrell20 said:

RonBurgundy said:

because it's a suited connector, and str8s and flushes get paid off in pots this large

but it's a crappy low suited connecter, that, even if it hits a flush or straight... may not hold up. It's just a dangerous hand to chase, really.JMHO.

your argument was that you cant have implied odds pre-flop, which was a stupid one.not that we are surprised or anything

[JFarrell20]

Absolute said:

JFarrell20 said:

KDawgCometh said:

JFarrell20 said:

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

obviously you still haven't learned implied odds. he's getting 12-1.5 on his call, which means yes he can successfully call. not to mention that the BB will call more then enough plus the limpers to where he's getting 17-1.5 on his call. How can you not call there? In a multiway pot he's getting way more then enough to call this. easy PF call. As far as the river goes, just call, you'll be good more then you aren't

How is this implied odds? He doesn't even know what the flop is yet. Pot odds sure, not implied odds.What kind of flop do you want to see here with a call of 1.5 cold and the BB yet to act?Short of A23...I'm not too excited in the prospects of this flop. Even landing a flush isn't a guaranteed win with this many people in. I just don't see how calling a raise here is +EV.Please explain if I'm missing something (anybody, not just KDawg, the guy who bought a voodoo doll of me and ritualistically pierces it nightly)

It *is* implied odds.Implied odds exist to make up for small variances in pot odds. For example, you want to call PF with this hand even if the pot odds might not justify it (which they do, so I dont even understand the argument you are trying to make)The implied odds of a hand like this pre-flop are strong because of the action you are going to get if you hit a good flop with all the PF aggression.Why is that so complicated for you?

What PF aggression? 1 raise and a bunch of cold-calls? That isn't aggressive at all.Even if you hit your hand early and pump the pot, with so many people in it and odds to chase pretty much anything, you could get involved in a pricey pot, in which your hand doesn't survive. Even with an optimal flop, you could be up against reverse implied odds.Honest question: What kind of flop do you realistically want to see ?

[JFarrell20]

Absolute said:

JFarrell20 said:

RonBurgundy said:

because it's a suited connector, and str8s and flushes get paid off in pots this large

but it's a crappy low suited connecter, that, even if it hits a flush or straight... may not hold up. It's just a dangerous hand to chase, really.JMHO.

your argument was that you cant have implied odds pre-flop, which was a stupid one.not that we are surprised or anything

Against 5 random hands, 45s has 0 (zero) implied odds preflop. You have no idea what your implied odds are until you see the flop. AA has implied odds preflop b/c it's already a made hand, but against 5 opponents, it doesn't even have implied odds preflop. You're confusing pot odds with implied odds. You really think 5 high has implied odds against 5 other hands preflop? lol.

[Absolute]

JFarrell20 said:

Absolute said:

JFarrell20 said:

KDawgCometh said:

JFarrell20 said:

why do you call a raise with 4/5s in the SB?Fold this.

obviously you still haven't learned implied odds. he's getting 12-1.5 on his call, which means yes he can successfully call. not to mention that the BB will call more then enough plus the limpers to where he's getting 17-1.5 on his call. How can you not call there? In a multiway pot he's getting way more then enough to call this. easy PF call. As far as the river goes, just call, you'll be good more then you aren't

How is this implied odds? He doesn't even know what the flop is yet. Pot odds sure, not implied odds.What kind of flop do you want to see here with a call of 1.5 cold and the BB yet to act?Short of A23...I'm not too excited in the prospects of this flop. Even landing a flush isn't a guaranteed win with this many people in. I just don't see how calling a raise here is +EV.Please explain if I'm missing something (anybody, not just KDawg, the guy who bought a voodoo doll of me and ritualistically pierces it nightly)

It *is* implied odds.Implied odds exist to make up for small variances in pot odds. For example, you want to call PF with this hand even if the pot odds might not justify it (which they do, so I dont even understand the argument you are trying to make)The implied odds of a hand like this pre-flop are strong because of the action you are going to get if you hit a good flop with all the PF aggression.Why is that so complicated for you?

What PF aggression? 1 raise and a bunch of cold-calls? That isn't aggressive at all.Even if you hit your hand early and pump the pot, with so many people in it and odds to chase pretty much anything, you could get involved in a pricey pot, in which your hand doesn't survive. Even with an optimal flop, you could be up against reverse implied odds.Honest question: What kind of flop do you realistically want to see ?

236 of my suit would be cool.

[Petoria]

Definition: Implied odds- Being paid off if you hit a hand in a big way.(Definition not given by Webster himself)Is anyone going to pay off 45s if it hits? Yes. Especially the guy who only raises with class 1 hands. There is enough justification to see a flop. If you miss, you get rid of it, simple as that.

[Absolute]

lets end this discussion on the basis that JFarrell is just an idiot.

[KDawgCometh]

okay JFarrell, you are completely clueless on how to play good limit poker. For starters he is getting 12-1.5 immeadite odds on his call with which basically means that the OP will have to win the hand about 8% of the time, which he will. Now for PF he is getting 17-1.5 implied odds if everyone calls the raise, which means that to call the OP will have to win almost 5% of the time, which will happen. Now if he hits a astraight or flush draw then he will win the entire pot from there anywhere from 28-36% of the time. Its an easy dump post flop idf he doesn't hit any draw, even a backdor draw since he'd have odds to go for one. Do you see where you are wrong, or are you just retarded