23 replies to this topic

[CobaltBlue]

Y'all have now gotten me hooked on limit, so I'm looking for some help here...(converted by hand)Bodog 2/4 10-handedAvg. Pot: $34Players/Flop: 53%Table seems pretty loose...I've seen a number of people play junk from odd positions and a number of calls with underpairs. I don't have any great reads though.Pre-flop: Hero is BB with J:club: T:club:.3 fold, MP1 call, 2 fold, CO call, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: 8 7 K (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero callsShould I have a bet out here? I anticipated that one of the two would bet. I considered a check-raise, but I figured it might be more valuable on the turn.Turn: 9 (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, CO folds, Hero callsI use my check-raise...and get 3-bet??? At this point, I'm a bit scared that he has the Q-high or A-high flush (and not just a draw).River: 2 (2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero callsI'm in full check/call by this point.Final pot: 11.7BBResults below:[size=7]Hero shows Flush (JcTc).MP1 shows Pair Sevens (Th7d).

[princeof56k]

CobaltBlue said:

Pre-flop: Hero is BB with J:club: T:club:.3 fold, MP1 call, 2 fold, CO call, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: 8 T K (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero calls

You obviously have an error here.

[Absolute]

[quote=CobaltBlue]Y'all have now gotten me hooked on limit, so I'm looking for some help here...(converted by hand)Bodog 2/4 10-handedAvg. Pot: $34Players/Flop: 53%Table seems pretty loose...I've seen a number of people play junk from odd positions and a number of calls with underpairs. I don't have any great reads though.Pre-flop: Hero is BB with J:club: T:club:.3 fold, MP1 call, 2 fold, CO call, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: 8 T K (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero callsShould I have a bet out here? I anticipated that one of the two would bet. I considered a check-raise, but I figured it might be more valuable on the turn.Turn: 9 Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, CO folds, Hero callsI use my check-raise...and get 3-bet??? At this point, I'm a bit scared that he has the Q-high or A-high flush (and not just a draw).River: 2 :heart:Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero callsI'm in full check/call by this point.Final pot: 11.7BBResults below:[size=7]Hero shows Flush (JcTc).MP1 shows Pair Sevens (Th7d).i am raising it pre-flop, although i don't know how comfortable you are with your post-flop play yet since you seem to be new to LHE.now i am wondering how theres a 10c in your hand and a 10c on the flop.im gonna go away now

[CobaltBlue]

Yeah...just fixed it. It's my first real hand history...so let me know if I missed anything else. =)And, I know I'm supposed to raise it...but I really really hate the blind positions post-flop.

[Vade]

Besides that, you should be betting out with any flopped flush that isn't the nut flush, imo. Sure, the Ace or maybe even the Queen will call you, but you don't want to give a free card to either. Also a set is possible here too, along with top two pair. Either of those could improve to beat you. Bet.

[Absolute]

[quote=CobaltBlue]Y'all have now gotten me hooked on limit, so I'm looking for some help here...(converted by hand)Bodog 2/4 10-handedAvg. Pot: $34Players/Flop: 53%Table seems pretty loose...I've seen a number of people play junk from odd positions and a number of calls with underpairs. I don't have any great reads though.Pre-flop: Hero is BB with J:club: T:club:.3 fold, MP1 call, 2 fold, CO call, 2 folds, Hero checksFlop: 8 7 K (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero callsShould I have a bet out here? I anticipated that one of the two would bet. I considered a check-raise, but I figured it might be more valuable on the turn.Turn: 9 (3 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, CO folds, Hero callsI use my check-raise...and get 3-bet??? At this point, I'm a bit scared that he has the Q-high or A-high flush (and not just a draw).River: 2 (2 players)Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero callsI'm in full check/call by this point.Final pot: 11.7BBResults below:[size=7]Hero shows Flush (JcTc).MP1 shows Pair Sevens (Th7d).ok you fixed itti think C/Ring the flop is fine but you just called itthats sillycap the turnraise the river.

[Absolute]

ok my full line isRaise PFLead the flopCap the turnRaise the rivercmon man!

[tskillz187]

lead the flopcap turncap river

[CobaltBlue]

If I bet out on the flop...wouldn't a fold-fold or fold-call (I'm guessing the CO had the draw) be likely on the flop?If I check-raise the flop...I get two small bets from each of them...and then one or two big bets between them on later streets (as I pretty much lose my ability to check-raise the turn, I think). And, a check-raised turn seems more valuable here.Assuming that they don't pick up a better hand on the turn or river...I expected to pick up 2 small bets on the flop (granted...I took a risk in giving a free card), 3-4 big bets on the turn, and possibly one on the river. That's 5-6 big bets.Playing more aggressively on the flop, I expected...2-3 (if bet out) or 4 (if check-raised) small bets, 2 big bets, possibly one big bet on the river. That's 3-5 big bets.I guess I figured my approach made them pay the most for their draw (assuming they didn't hit it on the turn). That said...I think I really did play it poorly by not capping the turn and/or not betting/raising the river.Oh...and I really do appreciate and value the advice. I'm not meaning to sound hard-headed or merely seek confirmation that I was right. Just going through my rationale here.

[Vade]

The problem is that with no preflop raises in, there's no guarantee that ANYONE will bet.It's not like you're checking to someone who you know will bet because they raised preflop

[CobaltBlue]

Vade said:

The problem is that with no preflop raises in, there's no guarantee that ANYONE will bet.It's not like you're checking to someone who you know will bet because they raised preflop

Yeah...that does make sense. I do see your point. I guess I figured one of them would bet with a king or draw. Maybe I had a subtle read that I'm not recognizing.

[DCWildcat]

Don't be so scared about knocking them off on the flop. I agree with Vade; you need to bet any flopped flush that isn't the nuts. Otherwise you risk people drawing out with their flush ace--which they very well might call with anyway. Flopped flushes are often very nasty hands, and I like to get them done with quickly. They aren't money hands the way turn and river flushes are because they leave so much room for other's improvement. If that 4th suited card comes--which it will 1/3 of the time--what will you do if you checked the flop and get bet on on the turn? It's an amazingly easy bluff to pull off.The 3-bet is concerning, but the chances that he flopped a higher flush than you are low enough for you to go ahead and cap/cap.

[CobaltBlue]

DCWildcat said:

Don't be so scared about knocking them off on the flop. I agree with Vade; you need to bet any flopped flush that isn't the nuts. Otherwise you risk people drawing out with their flush ace--which they very well might call with anyway. If that 4th suited card comes--which it will 1/3 of the time--what will you do if you checked the flop and get bet on on the turn? It's an amazingly easy bluff to pull off.

I figured they would call with that draw anyway. I guess my further rationalization...if they'd just taken the free card and a fourth club had come...it would've been easy to just call down or possibly fold (I would've just lost my BB).And the 4th suited card isn't quite that likely. I've got two clubs, there are three on the board, and my opponent(s) have one each (if they're on the draw). That leaves six or seven in the deck...which is 3 to 1 or 2.6 to 1 respectively.On a side note...I definitely would've bet out or check-raised on the flop if this had been NL. This whole maximizing profit in Limit is what's screwing me up.

[Vade]

Maximizing profit is a nice goal, but allowing your opponents a free chance to beat you is a huge negative

[KDawgCometh]

I'm torn on what to do PF. I think the check is okay. If you had another player or two in there then you definetly want to raise. Here's why. J10s is great multiway and can hit flops in many different ways, sometimes you can hit thm really hard. So you are raising to pad the pot and to tie people to their hands if you flop nicely. I'd pull a stop-n-go here on the flop. With that flop noone will belive you so at worst you will probably get them to just call, but if someone has top pair, then they'll probably raise. Just call the raise. Bet out gain on the turn and look to threebet it.

[Absolute]

KDawgCometh said:

I'm torn on what to do PF. I think the check is okay. If you had another player or two in there then you definetly want to raise. Here's why. J10s is great multiway and can hit flops in many different ways, sometimes you can hit thm really hard. So you are raising to pad the pot and to tie people to their hands if you flop nicely. I'd pull a stop-n-go here on the flop. With that flop noone will belive you so at worst you will probably get them to just call, but if someone has top pair, then they'll probably raise. Just call the raise. Bet out gain on the turn and look to threebet it.

I feel the same way. I would probably still raise PF though.

[CobaltBlue]

I've gotten more comfortable playing JTs lately (as I've come to understand that it's the most powerful drawing hand)...but I'm not sure I'm comfortable raising it from anywhere other than the button or the CO.As a side question...how often should I be folding my SB and BB in the face of raises? I re-raise with the premium hands and call with most of the other decent hands (pairs and suited connectors), but I'll usually fold A9os and below (again, I really hate being out of position post-flop).

[wrto4556]

No raise preflop. That's spewage. We are OOP. Button it would probably be a good raise if you played better postflop.What I mean by "played better postflop" is betting this flop. Capping this turn, and, if given the chance, capping this river.

[Absolute]

wrto4556 said:

No raise preflop. That's spewage. We are OOP. Button it would probably be a good raise if you played better postflop.What I mean by "played better postflop" is betting this flop. Capping this turn, and, if given the chance, capping this river.

RORthats japanese for LOL

[Naismith]

For the record, I paid off more higher flushes this past weekend than ever before. Even got cracked by Krablar after it called my pre-flop raise two cold. :)I think another factor is what your play usually is. I like to lead out on powerful flops because I also lead out when I don't hit too hard. I think a check is suspicious if you're the type of player that bets the flop often. That's more relevant had you raised pre-flop.I would definitely lead out here, though. Most people don't expect you to play the made hand fast and won't put you on it.Peace,Jay