112 replies to this topic

[timwakefield]

speedz99, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 6:02 PM, said:

I've got a really stupid, basic question...so you go to your temple...what do you do there on any given day? Meditate? Talk about teachings? Whittle?

I've never really practiced in a temple - that's one of the nice things about Buddhism, at least in my understanding. It's not like you go to temple every Sunday, or that you have to go to the temple for some reason. In other words, you can learn and practice meditation anywhere, so you should also check out smaller groups and things like that. As far as what I've done when studying with a teacher: Well sometimes they will talk about history, or certain teachings of the Dharma, and sometimes they will talk about meditation, and then generally there are group meditation periods. The whole idea of Buddhism is that the path to liberation/salvation/enlightenment is found by just sitting, so that is mostly what you do.

[Southern Buddhist]

Also, if you're a formal student of a particular teacher, it means meeting with the teacher, who will assess your progress and, in Zen practice, provide you with questions to think about until your next meeting.

[crowTrobot]

Southern Buddhist, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 3:11 PM, said:

give a dharma talk

i hated that show. greg was such a pansy.

[speedz99]

Southern Buddhist, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 3:10 PM, said:

So, Alec Baldwin, we meet again...(last time was in the "I want to try acid" thread).

Oh, I remember...anyone who understands the "did that just happen?" phenomenon is automatically ok in my book.

Southern Buddhist, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 3:10 PM, said:

I got my introduction to Buddhism through reading about it, since I'm in the wilds of rural Virginia. The Manjushri Institute looks very cool, but also very traditional, with a lot of mandalas and gods/goddesses and other semi-supernatural things. If you're up for it, that's cool, but if you're looking for a more austere aesthetic, Zen is very stripped-down. It's purely a matter of what appeals to you most. My own practice is mostly solo, so it's more Victorian fixer-upper in aesthetic.

Hmm, interesting point. I'm definitely not looking for anything supernatural.

Southern Buddhist, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 3:10 PM, said:

Lots of books.

I'm not sure how to say this...but reading wouldn't work for me (other than supplementing what I'm learning in person). I guess there are a few reasons why.-After spending hours reading chem, bio, and microbio, I'm burned out on the whole "reading to learn" thing. I wish I had an unlimited supply of energy for that kind of thing, but I don't.-In general, I learn much better when I can listen to someone and be interactive in a conversation (like most people, I suppose). When I try to teach myself something from the pages of a book it seems to fly right in and out of my brain in a matter of seconds. -Maybe it's because of the way I was raised, but I just can't picture doing this without actually being in a temple (or just with a monk). I guess I'm not self-actualized or whatever they're calling it these days.Thanks for the help...I'm pretty open to anything at the moment, so I probably will pick up one of those books to give it a try.

[Southern Buddhist]

speedz99, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 6:21 PM, said:

hours reading chem, bio, and microbio,

Blargh.

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-Maybe it's because of the way I was raised, but I just can't picture doing this without actually being in a temple (or just with a monk). I guess I'm not self-actualized or whatever they're calling it these days.

Nah, that's cool. It makes sense to want face-to-face conversation, Q&A, and all. Definitely, then, try to find a local sitting group or a teacher giving a dharma talk.You might really like the Insight Meditation Society. A few of the authors I mentioned are connected with them. Here's a link to their website (opens their links page with centers worldwide and websites for more info):http://www.dharma.or...s/mr_links.html

[checkymcfold]

Southern Buddhist, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 5:10 PM, said:

I'm in the wilds of rural Virginia.

say hi to blacksburg for me. i grew up there/radford .

[speedz99]

Southern Buddhist, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 3:39 PM, said:

Blargh.

Blargh indeed.

[SBriand]

blerg not blargHmmm, I was always interested in Buddhism. The meat thing might be an issue. I like chicken and pork. Blerg.

[Southern Buddhist]

checkymcfold, on Monday, February 4th, 2008, 6:44 PM, said:

say hi to blacksburg for me. i grew up there/radford .

O...M...G!!!!! You're shitting me. I love your avie, love your posts, and I grew up in Hillsville! [For those not from SW Virginia, yeah, that town is exactly as hip 'n' happenin' as it sounds.] I live in Staunton now, after some detours to New York, New Jersey, and Florida.SBriand, as previous posts note, eating meat is totally a personal decision. I don't, but I do eat seafood. Some hardcore Tibetan Buddhists eat meat happily, even after they come to America. Buddhists range from vegan to omnivore, and there's really no judgment about it (there shouldn't be, anyway).

[lordofelt]

I'll agree with the posters above that all of that has been written in this thread has been very interesting and enlightening (see what I did there?) and I appreciate everything that has been shared as I'm sure others do to.I'd just like to add that I'm slowly learning a little bit about Buddhism as a whole and all that goes along with it and the part I like the most is that I have yet to come across anything that directly contradicts my own "secular" values. My main problem with Christianity and other religions has never been the supernatural beliefs they hold (though I often find them ridiculous) but the parts/stories/teachings of them that are morally wrong and disturbing. Often these other religions either sweep these parts under the rug or try and interpret them in a positive light but neither of these approaches clears my own conscience.So far in my buddhist learnings I haven't encountered anything about the Buddha spreading his word by the sword or condemning the killing of thousands of "evil" people and thats what is encouraging me to learn more about it. That and the lack of judgement placed upon people who disagree with the religious leaders.Some more quick questions:Is there any type of exocommunication within Buddhism where someone could be "cast out" from their religion/temple etc.Most religions seem to have some opposement to science explaining the world what is Buddhism's opinion on science?As always thanks for the opportunity to learn.

[timwakefield]

lordofelt, on Tuesday, February 5th, 2008, 1:30 AM, said:

Some more quick questions:Is there any type of exocommunication within Buddhism where someone could be "cast out" from their religion/temple etc.Most religions seem to have some opposement to science explaining the world what is Buddhism's opinion on science?

To the first question: I'm not sure, probably in some sects. Certainly if you enroll as a monk in training in a Buddhist monastery and they don't think you can cut the mustard, they'll kick you out. But again Buddhism is a religion that can, by laypeople, be practiced alone or in small groups, after learning how to meditate. To the second question, Buddhism as such doesn't have an opinion . But since Buddhism does not have a creator god and is not much interested in creation myths, Buddhists have been very accepting and encouraging towards science. The Dalai Lama has said that quantum mechanics is in accord with Buddhism, and certainly evolution as well. Here's an article by the Dalai Lama about science.

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A Collaboration Between Science and ReligionJanuary 14, 2003 By His Holiness Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama These are times when destructive emotions like anger, fear and hatred are giving rise to devastating problems throughout the world. While the daily news offers grim reminders of the destructive power of such emotions, the question we must ask is, what can we do to overcome them? Of course such disturbing emotions have always been part of the human condition—humanity has been grappling with them for thousands of years. But I believe we have a valuable opportunity to make progress in dealing with them, through a collaboration between religion and science. With this in mind, I have, since 1987, engaged in an ongoing series of dialogues with groups of scientists. Organized by the Mind & Life Institute, they have been on topics ranging from quantum physics and cosmology to compassion and destructive emotions. I have found that while scientific findings offer a deeper understanding of such fields of knowledge as cosmology, it seems that Buddhist explanations can sometimes give scientists a new way to look at their own field. Our dialogue has provided benefits not just for science, but also for religion. Though Tibetans have valuable knowledge about the internal world, we have been materially backward partly because of a lack of scientific knowledge. Buddhist teachings stress the importance of understanding reality. Therefore, we should pay attention to what modern scientists have actually found through experiment and through measurement the things they have proved to be reality. At the beginning of these dialogues there were very few of us from the Buddhist side at first just myself and two translators. But recently, we have started to introduce modern science studies in our monasteries, and at our most recent science dialogue there were twenty or so Tibetan monks in the audience.The goals of the dialogue are on two levels. One is at the academic level, the expansion of knowledge. Generally speaking science has been an extraordinary tool for understanding the material world, making vast progress in our lifetime—though ofcourse there are still many things to explore. But modern science does not seem to be as advanced regarding internal experiences. In contrast, Buddhism, an ancient Indian thought, reflects a deep investigation into the workings of the mind. Over the centuries many people have carried out what we might call experiments in this field and have had significant, even extraordinary, experiences as a result of practices based on their knowledge. Therefore, more discussion and joint study between scientists and Buddhists scholars on the academic level could be usefulfor the expansion of human knowledge. On another level, if humanity is to survive, happiness and inner peace are crucial. Otherwise the lives of our children and their children are likely to be unhappy, desperate and short. The tragedy of 11th September 2001 demonstrated that modern technology and human intelligence guided by hatred can lead to immense destruction. Material development certainly contributes towards happiness - to some extent - and a comfortableway of life. But this is not sufficient. To achieve a deeper level of happiness we cannot neglect our inner development. I feel, for example, that our sense of fundamental human values has not kept pace with powerful new developments in our material abilities. For that reason I have been encouraging scientists to examine advanced Tibetan spiritual practitioners, to see what effects of their spiritual practice might be of benefit to others, outside the religious context. One approach would be to take the help of scientists in trying to make the workings of these inner methods clear. The important point here is to increase our understanding of the world of the mind, of consciousness, and of ouremotions. Experiments have already been carried out that show some practitioners can achieve a state of inner peace, even when facing disturbing circumstances. The results show such people to be happier, less susceptible to destructive emotions, and more attuned to the feelings of others. These methods are not just useful, but cheap: you don’t need to buy anything or make anything in a factory. You don’t need a drug or an injection. The next question is how are we to share these beneficial results with people beyond those who happen to be Buddhists. This does not concern Buddhism as such or any other religious tradition—it is simply a matter of trying to make clear the potential of the human mind. Everybody, whether rich or poor, educated or uneducated, has the potential to lead a peaceful, meaningful life. We must explore as faras we can how that can be brought about. In the course of that exploration, it will become obvious that most disturbances are stimulated not by external causes but by such internal events as the arising of disturbing emotions. The best antidote to these sources of disruption will come about through enhancing our ability to handle these emotions ourselves. Eventually we need to develop an awareness that provides the ways and means to overcome negative, disturbing emotions ourselves. The spiritual methods are available, but we must make these acceptable to the mass who may not bespiritually inclined. Only if we can do that will these methods have the widest of effect. This is important because science, technology, and material development cannot solve all our problems. We need to combine our material development with the inner development of such human values as compassion,tolerance, forgiveness, contentment and self-discipline.

From http://www.dalailama.com/Apparently there's a whole wikipedia entry on it: http://en.wikipedia....ism_and_scienceFrom that page:

Quote

The American physicist J. Robert Oppenheimer made an analogy to Buddhism when describing the Heisenberg uncertainty principle thusly: If we ask, for instance, whether the position of the electron remains the same, we must say 'no;' if we ask whether the electron's position changes with time, we must say 'no;' if we ask whether the electron is at rest, we must say 'no;' if we ask whether it is in motion, we must say 'no.' The Buddha has given such answers when interrogated as to the conditions of man's self after his death; but they are not familiar answers for the tradition of seventeenth and eighteenth-century science. J. R. Oppenheimer, Science and the Common Understanding, (Oxford University Press, 1954) pp 8-9.

[Southern Buddhist]

lordofelt, on Tuesday, February 5th, 2008, 1:30 AM, said:

I'll agree with the posters above that all of that has been written in this thread has been very interesting and enlightening (see what I did there?) and I appreciate everything that has been shared as I'm sure others do to.I'd just like to add that I'm slowly learning a little bit about Buddhism as a whole and all that goes along with it and the part I like the most is that I have yet to come across anything that directly contradicts my own "secular" values. My main problem with Christianity and other religions has never been the supernatural beliefs they hold (though I often find them ridiculous) but the parts/stories/teachings of them that are morally wrong and disturbing. Often these other religions either sweep these parts under the rug or try and interpret them in a positive light but neither of these approaches clears my own conscience.So far in my buddhist learnings I haven't encountered anything about the Buddha spreading his word by the sword or condemning the killing of thousands of "evil" people and thats what is encouraging me to learn more about it. That and the lack of judgement placed upon people who disagree with the religious leaders.Some more quick questions:Is there any type of exocommunication within Buddhism where someone could be "cast out" from their religion/temple etc.Most religions seem to have some opposement to science explaining the world what is Buddhism's opinion on science?As always thanks for the opportunity to learn.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad people are finding this useful. Tim's already answered well the questions about science and excommunication. As he said, monasteries will ask you to leave if you're not a good monk, but in general, I don't know of any group that is so rigid you can be thrown out for disagreeing. That's so _not_ the Buddhist way that I had never even considered it a possiblity until you asked.I'm with you in that it's not as much the supernatural stuff I have a problem with as it is the all-too-natural...the killing, the hatred of outside groups, and the many immoral ways the Bible's "moral" code has been put to use. I approached faith with a lot of curiosity. I read the entire Bible, Genesis to Revelation, plus several books of scholarship (Bart D. Ehrman is a good one). [Just as an aside, it never ceases to astonish and appall me that so many so-called Christians HAVE NOT READ all of their own "holy book." I dunno -- it's only the blueprint to _saving your eternal soul_, how important could it be? Nah, I'd rather just have a preacher tell me what's in there, read bits and pieces out of context, and thump it when I need to.]Decided that didn't work for me, so I read a few books on Judaism (again, historical and contextual scholarship, as that's my leaning). Not my style, either. Read some of the Vedic texts and books on Hinduism. Too many gods to keep straight, too much feeding and draping and pouring milk on statues for me. Finally, got to Buddhism and found my home, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually (whatever that word means). Had it not worked, I would have gone (rather skeptically) to Islam. Skipped it in my West-to-East direction because I was pretty certain I wasn't going to like it.IMHO, if you're searching for a faith at all (and nothing wrong with not having one), that's the way to do it. Know all of them, from the inside. Don't read what Christians say about Hinduism -- read what Hindus say of it, and vice versa (not that anyone in this country would do the vice-versa). Read scholarship on all of it. Try to learn how the modern version came to us from the past, and what turns it took along the way. And then ask yourself how the moral code in the books is actually played out in the real world. Are practitioners judgmental or cruel? Are they intellectually lazy? Are they warlike or violent? Or are they kind, peaceful people who are unafraid of honest questions?Colin McGinn is a philosopher (and atheist) who was asked by Bill Moyers if logic had any place in faith. Of course it does, he said, no matter what you believe, if it doesn't follow its own internal logic -- i.e., if it contradicts itself -- it's got a problem even on its own terms. If an outsider cannot ask questions of it, or is told that it will only make sense once he or she becomes a believer, then it cannot stand up to honest inquiry and it has a problem in terms of the real world. In short, he said, faith can be and _should_ be subject to logic. Not that logic can lead you to faith, necessarily, but that you should never have to discard logic in order to have faith. I find that fits well with Buddhism.I respect DN's faith because he's clear that it's all about being a better person and embodying the best of Christianity in his words and actions. I love the idea of embodying faith -- Buddhists put a lot of emphasis on it, saying, "What you do moment-to-moment is what you are." You cannot call yourself patient if moment to moment you are tapping your foot or watching the clock. You cannot call yourself hard-working if you're slacking off on a poker forum during the workday (oops!). He gets that. But I'm appalled at the number of Christians who seem to use their faith as a reason to feel they're better than everyone else, because they're chosen or saved or whatever, or, worse, treat Jesus as a cosmic slot machine, i.e., praying for a new car or help with their cable bill. I see that a lot around here. There's a range, but when you're used to seeing the low end of the range like 90% of the time, it makes it harder to align yourself with the little 10%, even though you know they are doing it right. I know it's rude, but when people ask me why I'm not a Christian, I tell them, "Two reasons: one, I've read the Bible; and two, other Christians."

[SBriand]

Awakening the Buddha Within : Tibetan Wisdom for the Western WorldHave you read this book?I was thinking of picking up Hagen's book at lunch today but some reviews say it would still be a little to hard to grasp for someone completely new to the whole concept and this book would be a better starter. Any thoughts?

[Southern Buddhist]

SBriand, on Tuesday, February 5th, 2008, 1:58 PM, said:

Awakening the Buddha Within : Tibetan Wisdom for the Western WorldHave you read this book?I was thinking of picking up Hagen's book at lunch today but some reviews say it would still be a little to hard to grasp for someone completely new to the whole concept and this book would be a better starter. Any thoughts?

I haven't, but I did just read his _Buddha Is as Buddha Does_, and he's a very clear, engaging writer with a good knack for explaining things. Personally, I didn't find Hagen hard, but his wasn't the first book I read on the subject, so I was probably already primed for it and may not be the best judge on how easy it would be for beginners.Give _Awakening_ a shot, and let us know what you think!

[speedz99]

Southern Buddhist, on Tuesday, February 5th, 2008, 1:48 PM, said:

I haven't, but I did just read his _Buddha Is as Buddha Does_, and he's a very clear, engaging writer with a good knack for explaining things. Personally, I didn't find Hagen hard, but his wasn't the first book I read on the subject, so I was probably already primed for it and may not be the best judge on how easy it would be for beginners.Give _Awakening_ a shot, and let us know what you think!

If you highlight a book title and then hit the little "u" up above the posting area it'll underline it for you. Of course you probably already know that and just save yourself time with the underscore thingies, but I can't help myself.

[Southern Buddhist]

speedz99, on Tuesday, February 5th, 2008, 5:04 PM, said:

If you highlight a book title and then hit the little "u" up above the posting area it'll underline it for you. Of course you probably already know that and just save yourself time with the underscore thingies, but I can't help myself.

Actually, I didn't -- still a newbie. Thanks! Also just laziness and force of habit from plain-text e-mails and not wanting to stop typing long enough to reach for mouse.

[SBriand]

I grew impatient waiting (not in a bad way, just bored at work and wanted to go to the bookstore) and I picked up Hagens book. I was skimming it and it seemed interesting. I will post when I am done with my thoughts and such. Thanks.

[timwakefield]

Books about Buddhism that I have read and would highly recommend:The Dharma Bums, by Jack KerouacZen and the Art of Archery, by Eugene HerrigalThe Diamond Sutra - this is very short and can be read in under an hour. The Wikipedia page links to a few different English translations at the bottom, available free online: http://en.wikipedia....i/Diamond_SutraNote: I don't have my copies in front of me so I don't know which translations of the sutras I've read. In my experience, (good) book stores will have multiple translations of certain sutras or writings, so I usually grab up a few different translations, compare a few sentences, read the back cover or whatever to see how well respected this translation is, and then buy a copy that seems best to me. In my understanding, there aren't really any canonical English translations - everything in the canon is in Sanskrit or other ancient languages. Ok back to the list - The Gateless Barrier: Zen Comments on the Mumonkan: This is a collection of Zen koans (parables/stories which are intermittently presented to monks undergoing Zen training, designed to empty one's mind), with ancient comments by Mumon, and modern comments by Zenkai Shibayama. I very highly recommend this one.I may think of more later.

[SBriand]

I am only about 25 pages in but I like it. I am not a huger reader because I have been spending most of my days in a Business Law book but I like it. I can see some religions reading this and getting offended though.

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The moral teachings that derives from the buddha-dharma is not a goody-goody code of behavior where we pretend virtue, curry favor, or promise to be good so that we can claim a reward at some later date. Rather, sound morality takes place wholly in the moment. It is based on the immediacy of Reality, on how we actually live. Our "reward" is in immediacy, in here and now, not in a never-never land

I think I am in love.

[speedz99]

Ok, so if I already believe in pretty much everything I've read about Buddhism, what's the point? I guess I'm saying...if most of the teachings seem like good common sense, what has being Buddhist (or at least knowing a lot about it) changed in you?