111 replies to this topic

[7s7c]

I figured I needed a new thread to be told why Lemieux > Gretzky so here we go!

1. Bobby Orr
2. Wayne Gretzky
3. Gordie Howe
4. Mario Lemieux
5. Bobby Hull
6. Maurice Richard
7. Doug Harvey
8. Eddie Shore
9. Jean Beliveau
10. Howie Morenz
11. Dennis Potvin
12. Mark Messier
13. Ray Bourque
14. Terry Sawchuk
15. Jacques Plante
16. Patrick Roy
17. Guy Lafleur
18. Phil Esposito
19. Mike Bossy
20. Red Kelly
21. Glenn Hall
22. Stan Mikita
23. Ted Lindsay
24. Larry Robinson
25. Bryan Trottier
26. Bobby Clarke
27. Martin Brodeur
28. Dominik Hasek
29. Newsy Lalonde
30. Niklas Lidstrom
31. Joe Sakic
32. Steve Yzerman
33. Chris Chelios
34. Scott Stevens
35. Valery Kharlamov
36. Brad Park
37. Ken Dryden
38. Viacheslav Fetisov
39. Tim Horton
40. Bernie Geoffrion
41. Jaromir Jagr
42. Jari Kurri
43. Pierre Pilote
44. Paul Coffey
45. Bill Durnan
46. Charlie Conacher
47. Milt Schmidt
48. Bernie Parent
49. Frank Mahovlich
50. Billy Smith
51. Dit Clapper
52. Max Bentley
53. Vladislav Tretiak
54. Dickie Moore
55. Peter Forsberg
56. Turk Broda
57. Henri Richard
58. Earl Seibert
59. King Clancy
60. Cyclone Taylor
61. Brett Hull
62. Andy Bathgate
63. Scott Niedermayer
64. Syl Apps Sr.
65. Ted Kennedy
66. Joe Malone
67. Sprague Cleghorn
68. Serge Savard
69. Brendan Shanahan
70. Johnny Bower
71. Bill Gadsby
72. Al MacInnis
73. Marcel Dionne
74. Bill Cook
75. Elmer Lach
76. Johnny Bucyk
77. Bob Gainey
78. Guy Lapointe
79. Chris Pronger
80. Sergei Fedorov
81. Aurel Joliat
82. Sergei Makarov
83. Gilbert Perreault
84. Borje Salming
85. Doug Bentley
86. Cam Neely
87. Brian Leetch
88. Jacques Laperriere
89. Ron Francis
90. Sid Abel
91. Toe Blake
92. Peter Stastny
93. Bill Cowley
94. Bill Quackenbush
95. Georges Vezina
96. Teemu Selanne
97. Boris Mikhailov
98. Frank Boucher
99. Cy Denneny
100. Alex Delvecchio

[Montreal_Est]

I think Jagr should be way higher , thats the first thing i see after a quick look.

I think he proved he was really dominant and one of the greatest RW of all-time.

He's gonna retire as one of the best scorer/pts and the best europeen with lidstrom.

But dude , its all good you made that list but if god could anwser me the truth , i'll bet 10 000$ that you havent seen all this guys played 10 games.I mean HOWIE MORENZ. How old are you dude 110?

[fryer98]

41. Jaromir Jagr

I had a pretty long argument with someone at the bar over the wekend about where Jagr currently stand on the all time raking list and where he will stand after his retirement.

This guy was trying to tell me a current top 15 and for sure top 10 at retirement.

Comments?

[Montreal_Est]

top 20 for sure.

Ok he had a bad attitude but the guy proved he was one of the best.

15 years consecutive with 30 goals.

[7s7c]

But dude , its all good you made that list but if god could anwser me the truth , i'll bet 10 000$ that you havent seen all this guys played 10 games.

I've never seen the pre-NHL guys or some of the guys who overlapped the O6 era, for sure. There's no video of Morenz, Shore, Lalonde, etc but to leave them out because video doesn't exist of them would be ridiculous. You simply have to look at the fact that Eddie Shore won a million Hart trophies as a defenseman and read how he was the most feared human in the sport to see how great he was.

[Montreal_Est]

I've never seen the pre-NHL guys or some of the guys who overlapped the O6 era, for sure. There's no video of Morenz, Shore, Lalonde, etc but to leave them out because video doesn't exist of them would be ridiculous. You simply have to look at the fact that Eddie Shore won a million Hart trophies as a defenseman and read how he was the most feared human in the sport to see how great he was.

wow , so you listen to old people who always put the old player like they were all gods and all and you calculate this and compare them to the player of the 1990 era?

This is ridiculous man.

You have no credibility with your top 100 if you havent seen them.

Why not just say : Here's a top 100 of the player i have seen played which include * insert years - 2008 *

[Montreal_Est]

Also , imo , jagr was better than Sakic & Yzerman.

But i understand someone who put them before him.

I find it way mroe scandalous to put Gordie Howe Before Mario Lemieux.

Mario Lemieux should invariably be in the top 3.

i can take if you put orr & betzky before but howe its hard to take.

its like a pimp slap in the face of mario.

[7s7c]

I had a pretty long argument with someone at the bar over the wekend about where Jagr currently stand on the all time raking list and where he will stand after his retirement.

This guy was trying to tell me a current top 15 and for sure top 10 at retirement.

Comments?

I think that's way too high, everything's subjective but strictly measuring him against other RW's currently (which is a much deeper talent pool than LW) for example I don't think you can put him ahead of guys like Bossy and Lafleur (who I think are somewhat similar contemporaries in terms of being pure scorers) who elevated their teams more. Jagr's numbers are fantastic but he won 1 Hart trophy and like Montreal Serge says, his situation has to be to his satisfaction which I think turns a lot of people off. He is one of the most talented players I'll ever see in my lifetime but I don't think he squeezed enough out of it. I also think he can be taken out of the game mentally.

[7s7c]

You have no credibility with your top 100 if you havent seen them.

I never said I desired any.

[7s7c]

wow , so you listen to old people who always put the old player like they were all gods and all and you calculate this and compare them to the player of the 1990 era?

This is ridiculous man.

You have no credibility with your top 100 if you havent seen them.

Why not just say : Here's a top 100 of the player i have seen played which include * insert years - 2008 *

Just to clarify, the oldest footage I have is from the 1953 playoffs so anyone whose career ended before 1953, I have not seen play which of course means they did not exist.

[Zach6668]

I'm gonna say this once and only once.

Montreal_Est comes off like a complete retard, and is FAR more annoying than serge.

[gruven]

I'm gonna say this once and only once.

Montreal_Est comes off like a complete retard, and is equally as annoying than serge.

FYP

[serge]

I'm gonna say this once and only once.

Montreal_Est comes off like a complete retard, and is FAR more annoying than serge.

thanks Zach... thats why you are my favourite..


Marshak, not so much...

[Montreal_Est]

sorry Zach but im not a retard and i know my hockey.

Hockey is so important for me you just dont understand how i love this game and im getting emotionnally involve speaking in a language i know little about.

I just find that rating player you never saw played is totally retarded , maybe thats retard but ok.

im pretty sure i know a lot more about hockey than you and you insulting me saying im a COMPLETE retard is ridiculous.

You gotta take into account that i play the little leafs/habs games a little over the top but it is for my own entertainment.

So you think rating HOWIE MORENZ before , lets say ( watching his list ) MARK MESSIER is not retarded ?!
Fact is , rating Mark messier before Howie Morenz is equally retarded as rating Morenz before Messier because nobody here's have a real experience watching Morenz play.You know when our parent salways said their generations were better and us we'll tell this to our childrens , well thats the same thing.The only people you know who saw Morenz are very old people , just to give you an idea Morenz was the father of Maurice Richard's wife ( dont know the word for that ).So people who have seen Morenz were old like richard or older or a little bit younger.Its getting old and since video didnt exist , yes we need to remember him as a great player and all , but hockey was soooo differant , i dont talk about differant in the way 50s or 60s or 70 s were differant , im talking about VERY VERY VERY OLD HOCKEY righjt there , so we just have to remember him but we cant compare him.I tend to say he was one of the best of his era , but thats it , its impossible to rate among other player while its possible to do it even if its difficult with players from 80s ect...60s...


anyway the retard is gonna go to sleep.

[serge]

The list is very interesting...However its very subjective...

Top 100 statistically?
Top 100 valuable players to their team?
Top 100 pure talents?

All equally great questions..

I grew up watching Gretzky play and Orr was before my time....I cant imagine anyone being better at the game than Gretzky was , however a lot of my elders swear by Orr..I respect them...From my generation no one is better than Gretzky..

[gruven]

.

You have no credibility with your top 100 if you havent seen them.

So, everytime the Hockey News posts a 'greatest players of all time list', that list should be based on the visual recollection of the youngest person in the office..... good plan...

[serge]

So, everytime the Hockey News posts a 'greatest players of all time list', that list should be based on the visual recollection of the youngest person in the office..... good plan...

lol..serious question to Chris..

When they are making that list, what is the criteria??

-stats
-winning
-talent

or some formula that takes everything into consideration

Thanks

[7s7c]

The list is very interesting...However its very subjective...

Top 100 statistically?
Top 100 valuable players to their team?
Top 100 pure talents?

All equally great questions..

I grew up watching Gretzky play and Orr was before my time....I cant imagine anyone being better at the game than Gretzky was , however a lot of my elders swear by Orr..I respect them...From my generation no one is better than Gretzky..

I don't think it's any of the above. Greatest is very subjective and it's very tough to do, albeit a fun exercise and each person will have their own equation that makes up "greatest" to them I imagine. Whether you are a math guy who uses complicated formulas for adjusted stats to measure Joe Malone against Joe Sakic or you are a guy who looks at 2 similar players and values that one of them won a Conn Smythe over the other. I think it's always fun to do lists like these if for nothing else than they create not only debate, but usually someone will say something like I remember the playoff year so and so had, etc and thus it also creates a little bit of time where you can remember some good times you had watching this great game of ours.

[gruven]

lol..serious question to Chris..

When they are making that list, what is the criteria??

-stats
-winning
-talent

or some formula that takes everything into consideration

Thanks

It's a little from column A, a little from column B..... but usually it breaks down to a long series of arguments followed by a vote..

[gruven]

lol..serious question to Chris..

When they are making that list, what is the criteria??

-stats
-winning
-talent

or some formula that takes everything into consideration

Thanks

It's a little from column A, a little from column B..... but usually it breaks down to a long series of arguments followed by a vote..