Avaron 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 At a pretty tight table. I played very aggressive the whole session and it was working for me. then this happened:-----PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($9.55)BB ($11.55)UTG ($23.45)Button ($5.95)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, J. 2 folds, Hero completes, BB raises to $0.3, Hero calls $0.20.Flop: ($0.60) A, A, J(2 players)Hero bets $0.3, BB calls $0.30.Turn: ($1.20) J(2 players)Hero bets $0.6, BB calls $0.60.River: ($2.40) 4(2 players)Hero bets $2.1, BB raises to $5, Hero calls $2.90.Final Pot: $12.40-----I want to hear your opinions about this hand.And please no stuff like "you donk, you had to fold, obviously he had it" etc. I know that already. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Don't bet the turn.Don't bet the river. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 heres the deal with this hand... if you bet what is calling with that you can beat... nothing, so don't bet. You aren't going to get a worse hand to call or a better hand to fold, so just check and fold IMHO.Also this is a super small pot so just give it up, check fold turn is great but if you must you can peel to a small bet. You have to check the river though. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Please do not include results in your posts. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 At a pretty tight table.Please C/F this board. Link to post Share on other sites
StilettoNole 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 At a pretty tight table. I played very aggressive the whole session and it was working for me. then this happened:-----PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB Hero ($9.55)I'd like to know how this is "working" for you? You have less than the max buy in. Oh wait... let me guess, you short stacked it and doubled up by pushing all in pre flop with A-6 off suit (which you claim is you playing aggressively) and got called by A-A which went down when you flopped trip 6's. Sorry for being a prick, but I just hate short stackers.Regarding this hand:1. Fold pre flop.2. If you didn't follow step one, then fold on the turn or river.Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You donk, you have to fold, obviously he had it!Honestly. You called a raise OOP preflop with an easily dominated hand, lead into the PFR on a bad board, lead into him again on the turn, and bet/called a river raise when you don't beat anything.You called the river hoping to chop at best, I guess. Don't donk bet into the PFR when he is literally not folding any hand in his range since you said it was a tight table. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I'd like to know how this is "working" for you? You have less than the max buy in. Oh wait... let me guess, you short stacked it and doubled up by pushing all in pre flop with A-6 off suit (which you claim is you playing aggressively) and got called by A-A which went down when you flopped trip 6's. Sorry for being a prick, but I just hate short stackers.Regarding this hand:1. Fold pre flop.2. If you didn't follow step one, then fold on the turn or river.Thank you.Dude, he's not shortstacking AT ALL.How is 95BBs shortstacking??? That's a ridiculous accusation Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Dude, he's not shortstacking AT ALL.How is 95BBs shortstacking??? That's a ridiculous accusationIf you're not playing 500 deep, you're not really playing Link to post Share on other sites
Avaron 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 w this is "working" for you? You have less than the max buy in. Oh wait... let me guess, you short stacked it and doubled up by pushing all in pre flop with A-6 off suit (which you claim is you playing aggressively) and got called by A-A which went down when you flopped trip 6's. Sorry for being a prick, but I just hate short stackers.Regarding this hand:1. Fold pre flop.2. If you didn't follow step one, then fold on the turn or river.Thank you.what i EXACTLY mean, is that i was raising a lot, bluffing a lot, preflop as well as after the flop. i was trying to set up the table against me, and i had the feeling that in this hand my opponent was just making a move to not let me steal his blind anymore. so from this point, my play was working, because i had a hand i could win a lot of money from him with the right flop. and the right flop came, in my opinion.and shortstacking? i started the game with an average amount. not the full, but also not with a short stack. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Dude, he's not shortstacking AT ALL.How is 95BBs shortstacking??? That's a ridiculous accusationOP said his aggressive play had been working well for him this session, yet he only has 95BB, how can this be? By buying in short, or he is multi-tabling and up at other tables. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 so from this point, my play was working, because i had a hand i could win a lot of money from him with the right flop. and the right flop came, in my opinion.for this to be the right flop to win a lot you have to put him on a complete bluff, and I don't really see where you can do that at any point in the hand. Villain raises pre, flats you on the flop and turn and makes a small raise on the river. That's pretty much a big hand every time. Link to post Share on other sites
Avaron 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 for this to be the right flop to win a lot you have to put him on a complete bluff, and I don't really see where you can do that at any point in the hand. Villain raises pre, flats you on the flop and turn and makes a small raise on the river. That's pretty much a big hand every time.i put him on a bluff preflop. yeah, right. i should have slowed down and made up my mind after his bet on the flop. that was the mistake... Link to post Share on other sites
StilettoNole 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 OP said his aggressive play had been working well for him this session, yet he only has 95BB, how can this be? By buying in short, or he is multi-tabling and up at other tables.This is exactly what I mean. 95BB is not short, but for his play to be "working" he should be up; and therefore over the maximum buy in... Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 i put him on a bluff preflop. yeah, right. i should have slowed down and made up my mind after his bet on the flop. that was the mistake...Once someone starts calling bets, the odds that they're bluffing drop dramatically. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Once someone starts calling bets, the odds that they're bluffing drop dramatically.I'm gonna keep that. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 This hand illustrates the awesomeness of the Zeebo theorum. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 This hand illustrates the awesomeness of the Zeebo theorum. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I'm gonna keep that. Brag:mtdesmoinescwikkrup24NoBBirBeat:This has no bearing on my poker skills.Variance:Maybe it will someday? Link to post Share on other sites
TeeSludge 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Once someone starts calling bets, the odds that they're bluffing drop dramatically.Dude, if the bluff by calling play is not in your repertoire you need to update your game. Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Problem started preflop. I guess you weren't really playing aggressively or you would have raised preflop.I never open limp in the SB. If someone open limps in the SB when I'm in the BB I'm raising about 70-80% of my hands cause it's just so weak.Problems with open limping in the SB1) You make it obvious you have a weak or marginal hand to the BB.2) You gain very little information about what the BB has.3) You will be out of position. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Once someone starts calling bets, the odds that they're bluffing drop dramatically. Dude, if the bluff by calling play is not in your repertoire you need to update your game.Well played.This hand illustrates the awesomeness of the Zeebo theorum.It's AMAZING how many lame boats will call HUGE bets in NL. If I could take one chip out of every pot when I hear this: "I have a boat ... yeah, I thought so (mucks)," I'd seriously have a lot of chips. Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 fold or raise pre. Link to post Share on other sites
Avaron 0 Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 Problem started preflop. I guess you weren't really playing aggressively or you would have raised preflop.I never open limp in the SB. If someone open limps in the SB when I'm in the BB I'm raising about 70-80% of my hands cause it's just so weak.Problems with open limping in the SB1) You make it obvious you have a weak or marginal hand to the BB.2) You gain very little information about what the BB has.3) You will be out of position.i wanted him to play. that's why i did not raise him. he previously folded like every raise in position or SB from me. not the best moment to do so, i guess^^ Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Once someone starts calling bets, the odds that they're bluffing drop dramatically.Such a great quote. Link to post Share on other sites
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