19 replies to this topic

[craiger]

This is about my 5th hand at the table so I have no reads quite yet.
I know the limp pre-flop is bad, but I'm drunk.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J, Q.
2 folds, Hero calls, 3 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) Q, 4, 8 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Is this a standard 3-bet for a lot of you? Did I overplay my top pair?
I was thinking if he called, I would lead any non-king non-ace turn, and check-call if he capped it. Until...

Turn: (7.25 BB) J (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

I hit my gin card. Should I have check-raised here, since the villain had the lead and would have likely bet again?

River: (9.25 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

[Zach6668]

Why are you donking this flop?

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, but I want to know your thoughts on it.

We'll start with that.

[navybuttons]

keep the lead. i can't really explain all that well why, but we're looking to bet-3bet play, and villain's cap is a free card play often enough.

i dunno if villains at this level are making free card plays, but maybe.

[Zach6668]

Navy,

1) Do you donk/3b this flop?

2) Why aren't you on AIM? Do you hate me?

[navybuttons]

Navy,

1) Do you donk/3b this flop?

i fold preflop.

but no, i probably c/r the flop depending on villain.

2) Why aren't you on AIM?

i gotta shower and clean cause navy has a sailor girl coming over.

Do you hate me?

never.




edit: donking is okay trying to squeeze out BB.

[Royal_Tour]

i thought smash returned for a quick second.


also, what is this aim you all speak of. perhaps i should invest in using it.

[craiger]

Why are you donking this flop?

I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, but I want to know your thoughts on it.

We'll start with that.

You know what Zach, now that I think about it, my flop 3-bet here was horrible. What is he ever capping that I am ahead of?
I guess the main reason that I donked was because I didn't know if my hand was strong enough for a C/R...and I hate check calling. Maybe check-call and then lead any safe turn? That's probably a better line hey?

[navybuttons]

meh, now i like flop bet/call. i'm still unsure about the turn.

[Zach6668]

Well, I think I can come up with a good reason for donking, and that's what Navy mentioned, wanting to squeeze BB out, but that's only good when villain is willing to raise with a wide range. If he's only raising with hands that beat us, then we're better off c/r'ing (since we assume he'll bet his whole range, or at least a lot more of it, and way more hands that we beat), and we also get to see BBs reaction to the bet.

Once I donk, and get raised, the 3-bet is reads-based. Since I'm assuming he'll raise with a wide enough range for me to want to donk into him, I'm probably 3-betting as well. (I very very rarely ever make this play, though.)

I don't like the c/c line on the flop, we should get some money in with tp here.

Also, your thinking about the 3-bet is wrong. When we 3-bet, we aren't thinking about what he'll cap with that we're ahead of, but rather what he'd raise the flop with that we're ahead of, and what percentage of his range it is, etc, and whether we're ahead often enough to 3-bet.

Once we get to the turn, as played, I kinda like a c/r, because he'll always bet his AA, KK, AQ hands, but he probably won't raise with them when we lead into his cap. I know I wouldn't.

[craiger]

Well, I think I can come up with a good reason for donking, and that's what Navy mentioned, wanting to squeeze BB out, but that's only good when villain is willing to raise with a wide range. If he's only raising with hands that beat us, then we're better off c/r'ing (since we assume he'll bet his whole range, or at least a lot more of it, and way more hands that we beat), and we also get to see BBs reaction to the bet.

Once I donk, and get raised, the 3-bet is reads-based. Since I'm assuming he'll raise with a wide enough range for me to want to donk into him, I'm probably 3-betting as well. (I very very rarely ever make this play, though.)

I don't like the c/c line on the flop, we should get some money in with tp here.

Also, your thinking about the 3-bet is wrong. When we 3-bet, we aren't thinking about what he'll cap with that we're ahead of, but rather what he'd raise the flop with that we're ahead of, and what percentage of his range it is, etc, and whether we're ahead often enough to 3-bet.

Once we get to the turn, as played, I kinda like a c/r, because he'll always bet his AA, KK, AQ hands, but he probably won't raise with them when we lead into his cap. I know I wouldn't.

When I 3-bet the flop I did figure he could be raising with JJ, TT, 99 with only 1 overcard, or a big flush draw... and then when he capped I was sure I was probably in bad shape.
I guess I am probably not ahead here a whole lot to make 3-betting profitable, maybe like 50/50 against an aggressive player.

[Bubba83]

I'd fold preflop.

On the flop, I like a bet/call line.

Whether I improve on the turn or not I'm donk betting. If he raises, I 3-bet two pair, call down with trips, and I fold or call down without improvement depending on reads.

[TravisG]

sorry to be a noob, but wat's "donk betting" or "donking" ?

[navybuttons]

sorry to be a noob, but wat's "donk betting" or "donking" ?

leading with a bet when you do not have the lead.

[Frez]

leading with a bet when you do not have the lead.

And before anyone asks, "leading with a bet" means betting when first to act, betting into a player who "had the lead", meaning made the last bet or raise the previous round

[Zach6668]

I forgot to touch on pf. You should probably fold.

Your last two posts you've limped first in.

I think, if you were to never limp first in, you wouldn't give anything up.

[navybuttons]

I think, if you were to never limp first in, you wouldn't give anything up.

you suck at the fullring low limit limit hold them imo.

edit: 44-66 in early position.

[Zach6668]

you suck at the fullring low limit limit hold them imo.

edit: 44-66 in early position.

If the games are loose enough. Are they loose enough, online?

I know in a live game, I'm limping a ton of hands up front because it's so loose passive.

[KowboyKoop]

If the games are loose enough. Are they loose enough, online?

I know in a live game, I'm limping a ton of hands up front because it's so loose passive.

I limp with 77-22 most of the time in online games....but that's .50/1 where it is definitely loose enough to be profitable. When I play 1/2 on PStars, I never limp in the same spot...as the games are much tighter. Not sure about higher games than 1/2.

[Actuary]

I like the river.
Thats about it

[jmkiser]

I like the river.
Thats about it

Do you play a much tighter/safer style? I'm finding that I'm backing Actuary's comments a lot in the past few posts.

I try not to make too many PF actions that are going to put me in weird situations. If I do, I'm usually at least in position.



I don't know much about the 3 bet or cap and I'm usually only involved in one because I have a monster hand.


On the flop, I almost never donk bet. The only times I have done so are when I'm utilizing my god awful blind play and betting into 2 or more people after I limped on the big blind and hit top pair with my QJ. And even then, I don't do it all the time.

If I check/raise and get 3 bet, I'm just immediately feel blagh and call down unimproved almost all of the time.




What am I missing? Where is all of this "game" coming from? (<----- Epic question) Are the intricate 3 betting and capping strategies really that prominent? Is it just because of the low stakes people that I play? When I see non-standard vpip/pfr/af, I guess I just treat them as the noob they are. 3 bets by any of those kinds of people are usually a big thing.

The only time that I'm really thinking intricately about what a person might be doing is when I see a decently standard vpip/pfr/af. I can get to higher levels of poker thought with them, but it still rarely ever leads to large amounts of 3 bet / capping.




I think it's blind play and 3 bet / capping that are the two weakest parts of my game. At least I stay out of trouble, amirite?