13 replies to this topic

[jimmytang]

41 man tournament, $80 buy in.102,500 chips in play.Blinds are 500/1000BB I have AJ,Puck makes a 2500 raise, I have a $7,500 I go all in and he calls with K10,my question is should i just call the raise, leaving me with a $4,000 bet on the flop - the flop came up A 2 5 - not sure my $4,000 bet would have scared him off but his decision is much easier perflop to go with K10 (all in) vs seeing the flop and then a $4,000 bet with the ideal flop for me. Turn was J and of course the Q for his straight and knocked me out.This other situation is a 1010 and the BB called me with 810, same scenerio, BB had the chips and took the risk preflop, I lose this one to 62574 board. Again if I had risked 1/2 my stack here and then the other half on the flop, it's a tough call.I believe I did the right thing both times and sufferred bad beats but in the long run maybe a little less aggressive would give me more options after the flop.Opinions please.Thanks.Jimmy

[Rocketwadster]

I think that more info is needed in order to give a more informed answer.Items such as:What is puck's position (or are you referring to the dealer as puck?)How many chips does Puck have?What are Puck's playing tendancies so far that you have noticed (ie. does he always raise from the button (if that is where he is)?)How many players away from the money are you?Was your Ace Jack suited or not?etc.Without knowing all of that info, here's my three cents on what I do know:Ace Jack (even suited) looks nice and all that, but it can be easily dominated by a multitude of hands (AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, any other pocket pair is leading, etc). This is either a calling situation in my mind, to see what the flop brings, or a fold, depending on the items I have listed above that I currently do not know.

[cdddc75]

Calling off nearly half your stack to leave yourself with 4xBB would be horrible.With that hand, Puck's raise, and your stack compared to the blinds, pushing is the only logical move.He sucked out...it happens sometimes when you're a short stack.

[jimmytang]

I do think the allin is the right play,He had chips and he was on the puck,I thought I had a dominate hand ( I was right),your right 4BB left is foolish, it's just happend twice and I guess some doubt was creeping in, foolish. Those were 2 great opportunities to double up and it just didn't happen.Thxs Cddddc75.My background is 10/20 15/30 hold'em,love the Nolimit tournies but still have a lot to learn.

[cdddc75]

jimmytang said:

I do think the allin is the right play,He had chips and he was on the puck,I thought I had a dominate hand ( I was right),your right 4BB left is foolish, it's just happend twice and I guess some doubt was creeping in, foolish. Those were 2 great opportunities to double up and it just didn't happen.Thxs Cddddc75.My background is 10/20 15/30 hold'em,love the Nolimit tournies but still have a lot to learn.

I think we're all in that boat. NL tournaments are very dynamic.Don't let the suckouts get you down.

[Rocketwadster]

cdddc75 said:

Calling off nearly half your stack to leave yourself with 4xBB would be horrible.With that hand, Puck's raise, and your stack compared to the blinds, pushing is the only logical move.He sucked out...it happens sometimes when you're a short stack.

I'm not convinced that pushing is the only logical move. As I indicated in my reply, there are a lot of hands that beat Ace jack. Without knowing any of the info that I think you need to have to give an informed opinion, I disagree that it is the only logical move. A lot of hands have him dominated pre-flop...

[cdddc75]

Folding might be correct under specific circumstances (very tight villain, other short stacks, near the pay bubble). I'm not sure how calling would ever be the right play, though.

[jimmytang]

he was loose aggressive,you have to pick your fights and I guessed right (sort of) he won the hand but I have to live with it.It's interesting to see that Rocket thinks another style of play might be suitable because that's my question.more info:My aj was not suited. He was the puck(dealer) and I was BB, nobody else in the hand. Loose aggressive style, he had 30,000 in chips.If i just call and then make a $4,000 bet , he cannot call or at least it's a really tough decisionto make and I'm sitting at $11,000 instead of being knocked out. If I miss the flop I sit at $4,000 but again that might as well be 0 because I have no clout over my next playable hand, that's why the allin is the play. Sorry I'm just trying to get through this hand.

[Rocketwadster]

jimmytang said:

he was loose aggressive,you have to pick your fights and I guessed right (sort of) he won the hand but I have to live with it.It's interesting to see that Rocket thinks another style of play might be suitable because that's my question.more info:My aj was not suited. He was the puck(dealer) and I was BB, nobody else in the hand. Loose aggressive style, he had 30,000 in chips.If i just call and then make a $4,000 bet , he cannot call or at least it's a really tough decisionto make and I'm sitting at $11,000 instead of being knocked out. If I miss the flop I sit at $4,000 but again that might as well be 0 because I have no clout over my next playable hand, that's why the allin is the play. Sorry I'm just trying to get through this hand.

okay, now that I see a lot of the "missing" info, here's my thoughts.The guy has a LOT of chips compared to you. Your 7500 chips, while not miniscule, will not really intimidate the guy by you going all-in over the top of him. Another $5000 is probably a pretty easy call for a lot of people to make when they are in his shoes.I said that ace jack suited looks pretty. Ace jack offsuit (while supposedly only about 2% worse than suited) is not pretty in my mind, and is dominated by a lot of hands (more so than if you were suited). Blinds are pretty large here though, and it is a much better hand than average. Therefore, I think the only two plays are all-in, or fold, and I don't really think folding is an option here with the blinds so big. I think you made the right call math wise, and read wise (you DID have the better hand for a little while. Unfortunately, the guy got lucky and you didn't. That's poker. :wink:

[dms26]

I would have pushed there too, I don't think 4,000 is enough to push him off a hand with a 5,000 pot. Since he was on the button it could have easily been a blind steal, so the range of hands you would be up against is huge and you have most of them beat. Problem is since he had 2 live cards it was still 60/40, but I don't think you did anything wrong. Those are always the toughest decisions for me in a tourney, I hate to push all in preflop unless I have AA or KK. Shortstacked though you have to make a stand soon and AJ isn't a bad hand against a button raise.

[tskillz187]

I think areih was talking about a similar situation where not to push preflop and then bet out all in on the flop regardless of what comes might lead him to fold more often. So if you are just going to call his raise preflop, you have to go all in regardless of flop and you might be seeing better results.

[Schneider]

skillz....thats exactly what i was thinking. If you are going to play this hand you are going to get all your chips in it no matter what. I think calling the raise, saving the 4K for the flop is the right play. Sure, maybe he doesn't fold this time, but its hard to call off your money with KT on an Ace high board.In this particular spot you have position on him because you get to act first and you give him the option to not put any more chips in the pot. If he was to act before you, he would make a bet and then HAVE to call your ALL IN.I like the idea of calling and then pushing on the flop.

[DCWildcat]

You're not going to knock him off if you push. So be confident you have the higher percentage hand, which you probably would here.That said, the flop will miss you 70% of the time. What do you do if you miss and there's a K or Q on the board? Your money is either all going in or you fold. If it goes in, you'll probably lose. If you fold, the SB will take you down another 500, leaving you only one round to double up, and that would only get you back up to 7000.You know if you hit, all your money is going in.I see no reason to wait to the flop to push and make villain's decision easier.Push PF.

[tskillz187]

DCWildcat said:

You're not going to knock him off if you push. So be confident you have the higher percentage hand, which you probably would here.That said, the flop will miss you 70% of the time. What do you do if you miss and there's a K or Q on the board? Your money is either all going in or you fold. If it goes in, you'll probably lose. If you fold, the SB will take you down another 500, leaving you only one round to double up, and that would only get you back up to 7000.You know if you hit, all your money is going in.I see no reason to wait to the flop to push and make villain's decision easier.Push PF.

If you think when you push preflop that you are going to get called by the smallish raise and you have a weak hand like ace high you should just call the preflop raise, then bet out the flop all in regardless, granted you miss the flop 70% of the time but so does he and its very hard for him to call the all in on the flop with just K high, in fact if he does hes now way behind! There is no added risk to this play and only reward, that is only if you know he will call your reraise all in poreflop, you are letting him see 5 cards instead of 3.