Flatcalling With The Nuts?

[fuzeeke 0]

This hand led to an interesting discussion between me and a friend:Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP2 ($9)Hero ($63.85)CO ($22.50)Button ($11)SB ($30)BB ($38.50)UTG ($61.10)UTG+1 ($19.50)MP1 ($48)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, J. UTG posts a blind of $0.50. 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, 3 folds, UTG (poster) calls $1.Flop: ($3.25) 7, 4, K(4 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $2, UTG raises to $5, Hero raises to $23.5, UTG raises to $64.6 (All-In), Hero calls $38.10.Turn: ($126.45) 8(4 players, 1 all-in)River: ($126.45) Q(4 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $129.45Now, let's assume the following: suppose he bets the flop and I raise, then he reraises me. I would immediately think he has a set. Would you, with my hand, ever just flatcall to see what the turn brings?At these stakes, he could of course have anything, he could have AK or AA or two pair. However, if the board would pair on the turn, that could scare him as well if he has a lower flush. No reads on the player btw as he just sat down.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If you never slowplay, you're not giving much of anything up.

[StilettoNole 0]

I don't think I ever flat call if I know that the villain is going to call my raise. The only time I flat call is to keep him involved in the hand; if I know he is going all the way, stick it in, IMO.

[No_Neck 0]

the only time I slow play is if I have Q3 and the board is QQ3.if you have the deck crippled sometime you have to give them a little rope to catch up but other than that just get the money in before a scare card comes.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Now, let's assume the following: suppose he bets the flop and I raise, then he reraises me. I would immediately think he has a set. Would you, with my hand, ever just flatcall to see what the turn brings?At these stakes, he could of course have anything, he could have AK or AA or two pair. However, if the board would pair on the turn, that could scare him as well if he has a lower flush. No reads on the player btw as he just sat down.

You would be thinking wrong. Almost any hand will pressure this board. I've seen straights push on a flushed/paired turn. Would you fold to a turn push on a paired board? We have the nuts and rarely if ever have a reason for not putting betting into high gear with a willing villain. Put another way, there's no way I can think of to lose money by pushing a willing villain all-in when holding the nuts.

[cwik 0]

This is what happens when you slow play. It makes you sick.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.50/$15 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $100CO: $120.55Button: $24.40SB: $119.70BB: $141.75Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with 9 A Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.Flop: 4 J 7 ($8, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB raises to $19, Hero calls.Turn: 4 ($46, 2 players)SB bets $36, Hero calls.River: J ($118, 2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.Results:Final pot: $118

[NoBBiR 0]

the only time I slow play is if I have Q3 and the board is QQ3.if you have the deck crippled sometime you have to give them a little rope to catch up but other than that just get the money in before a scare card comes.

I still wouldn't slow play that, since someone can have a hand like AQ and turn an ace or backdoor 88 or something for a chop. The only time I'm into slowplaying is when I flop an overfull, say 88 on a 855 board. I suppose you can also make an argument for slowplaying if you flop it with AK on an AAK board too, since you're pretty much 99.9-.1 against every other hand. At that point, you're just begging someone to catch something.

This is what happens when you slow play. It makes you sick.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.50/$15 playersConverterStack sizes:Hero: $100CO: $120.55Button: $24.40SB: $119.70BB: $141.75Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with 9 A Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds.Flop: 4 J 7 ($8, 2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB raises to $19, Hero calls.Turn: 4 ($46, 2 players)SB bets $36, Hero calls.River: J ($118, 2 players)SB checks, Hero checks.Results:Final pot: $118

Oooo, Me and Cwik have something in common. The board gets progressively worse for us on each subsequent street. Note to self - always get it in on the flop

[fuzeeke 0]

Put another way, there's no way I can think of to lose money by pushing a willing villain all-in when holding the nuts.

Of course it'll win you money. After playing this hand, I remembered a hand on HSP. Someone (might even be DN) flopped the nut straight, then flatcalled a raise to let a card come off. That made me wonder if *anyone* would do the same thing in a situation like the one I described in the OP.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Of course it'll win you money. After playing this hand, I remembered a hand on HSP. Someone (might even be DN) flopped the nut straight, then flatcalled a raise to let a card come off. That made me wonder if *anyone* would do the same thing in a situation like the one I described in the OP.

I didn't word my comment correctly. If you have a villain who's dying to shove into your nut hand, by all means, accommodate him. Long term ... you will never lose money.

[NoBBiR 0]

If you think the guy has a set, he's not going to fold for 100bbs at this point. If that's your read, SHOVE. Never let a card come off and risk putting your money in behind when you can easily get it in ahead now.Daniel makes some weird plays sometimes on HSP - and sometimes they're right - but if you have the nuts and the guy wants to put all his money in against you, do not give him a chance to second guess himself.

[Royal_Tour 0]

This hand led to an interesting discussion between me and a friend:Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP2 ($9)Hero ($63.85)CO ($22.50)Button ($11)SB ($30)BB ($38.50)UTG ($61.10)UTG+1 ($19.50)MP1 ($48)Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A, J. UTG posts a blind of $0.50. 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, 3 folds, UTG (poster) calls $1.Flop: ($3.25) 7, 4, K(4 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $2, UTG raises to $5, Hero raises to $23.5, UTG raises to $64.6 (All-In), Hero calls $38.10.Turn: ($126.45) 8(4 players, 1 all-in)River: ($126.45) Q(4 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $129.45Now, let's assume the following: suppose he bets the flop and I raise, then he reraises me. I would immediately think he has a set. Would you, with my hand, ever just flatcall to see what the turn brings?At these stakes, he could of course have anything, he could have AK or AA or two pair. However, if the board would pair on the turn, that could scare him as well if he has a lower flush. No reads on the player btw as he just sat down.

The only time I might flatcall with the current nuts in a situation like this would be if it was very deep stacks.lets say you both had 300bb's + A flat call might keep him interested enough regardless of the turn card. Only thing i would be worried about with a deep stack 4bet push on the flop is that villain might actually think he's behind to te nuts and fold.