ROBBBIGG 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Game started 3 handed, but I'm playing HU vs a complete maniac. He's shoved a lot of flops, probably 75% of them, the others he folds. He's slightly aggro preflop, minraising any hand he likes, regardless of position. Villain hasn't shown down a hand except for when he open shoved Queens preflop and was called by AK suited (another player, now gone).Effectively Full Stacks ($200)Me (Button)Him (BB)Hero holds 98 suited (diamonds)I bet 6, he raises to 12, I call.Flop: 74J, 2 diamondsVillain shoves, I snap call.Ok, so I brick and he has KJ. I'm then made fun of pretty relentlessly, but I'm checking with you guys - against a villain whose range pf is pretty murky (he's playing about 75% or so of his hands, shoving what is likely all his pocket pairs PF) and shoves too many flops to always have a pair, the call is standard, right? Furthermore, given he's likely willing (but not 100%) to sit until one of us has all the money, should I have waited until I had a stronger hand? He's been grinding me down a decent amount with his minraise + shoves, but we each have a decent amount of money (3x more BIs for me, a lot more for him) willing to reload with. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Zach might bitch if i sat this...If he's not going to reload and the game ends once you lose this buyin, I think you can pass this hand up. You're currently not even way ahead of Q high. I think it'd be much smarter to get all in against him w/ top pair than a super draw. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Zach might bitch if i sat this...If he's not going to reload and the game ends once you lose this buyin, I think you can pass this hand up. You're currently not even way ahead of Q high. I think it'd be much smarter to get all in against him w/ top pair than a super draw.Of course this is meaningless, but even if it did matter, OP says he has lots of buyins left to reload with. Link to post Share on other sites
ROBBBIGG 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 FWIW, I played moderately tighter and after getting just $20 short of even he quit me. I suspect if I hit my draw in the above hand he would played until he went broke. Link to post Share on other sites
bbgun 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Zach might bitch if i sat this...If he's not going to reload and the game ends once you lose this buyin, I think you can pass this hand up. You're currently not even way ahead of Q high. I think it'd be much smarter to get all in against him w/ top pair than a super draw.If villan does have Q high, then hero could have as many as 18 outs (3 eights, 3 nines, 4 tens, 8 diamonds), making him basically a 70/30 fav. in the hand. If his pair cards are not live, he still has 12 outs, making it a 50/50...How is this not a shove HU? Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 If villan does have Q high, then hero could have as many as 18 outs (3 eights, 3 nines, 4 tens, 8 diamonds), making him basically a 70/30 fav. in the hand. If his pair cards are not live, he still has 12 outs, making it a 50/50...How is this not a shove HU?18 outs is 61/39, not 70/30. I though it was closer to 58/42 though. It's never a shove because we can't shove, we've already been shoved on. It is a call, I was just saying this superdraw isn't that great against an aggro player that already went all in into us. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Assume the villain has a Jx hand. We are not 50/50 with 12 outs and I don't think we should call here. If he's really just shoving that many flops, it shouldn't be too hard to make a better hand than 9 high to stack off with... Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 For his actual hand, the call is only about an $8 mistake. The call is right if we think we have pair outs sometimes. I don't think it matters much what we do here, honestly.I think we can take suited connectors out of our game entirely. In a "normal" game, we make money with these hands by semibluffing or getting paid after we hit. The shovebot negates both of these, so just forget it. The blinds mean nothing. Wait for a hand that you think can be best hot & cold. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Assume the villain has a Jx hand. We are not 50/50 with 12 outs and I don't think we should call here. If he's really just shoving that many flops, it shouldn't be too hard to make a better hand than 9 high to stack off with... Man, don't do it. We don't have to do this one again. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm pretty on the fence about this play. I don't think we need to make this play against a villain who's giving us multiple shots at his stack. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Man, don't do it. We don't have to do this one again.WHY DID YOU BOLD THAT?!!?!?!?!?!?It was so subtle and I was gonna slip it right past Zach!!!EDIT: Also, I didn't really say wait for a better spot. I don't think that this is a very +EV play here and if he's shoving that many hands, I'd prefer to be calling all in with some kind of made hand than a draw since we're not even gonna show a profit against top pair by calling here. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 2 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I don't think we need to make this play against a villain who's giving us multiple shots at his stack. EDIT: Also, I didn't really say wait for a better spot. I don't think that this is a very +EV play here and if he's shoving that many hands, I'd prefer to be calling all in with some kind of made hand than a draw since we're not even gonna show a profit against top pair by calling here. Link to post Share on other sites
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