16 replies to this topic

[Wily]

Recently I've completed my switch from tight, normally aggressive (ram and jam when you have a great hand, a strong draw, not when you have a second best hand) to ultra aggressive (actively trying to push off better hands than yours). Check-raising with any piece of a flop when I sense weakness has become the order of the day - it's the only thing that has a reasonable chance of getting someone to fold a better hand than mine. I think this type of play resulted in a short-term hit to my win rate, but in the long run I think it's preparing me for higher limits and even higher win rates. Plus, it's so much more fun :)Here's two hands where aggression won the day, and one more which shows how being ultra aggressive pays you off when you have a monster too. Wondering if anyone takes my line in the first two; the third one plays itself.1) 4 handed $2-4 game.Dealt A 10 in the SB. UTG calls, I raise, BB reraises, UTG and I call.Flop: K 10 7 I check, BB bets, UTG calls, I raise, BB and UTG call.Turn: K 10 7 8 What does a fish holding a made flush here do? Bet out? no way, he goes for a checkraise again!I check, BB thinks for a while and bets, UTG folds, I raise, BB folds!2) 6 handed $2-4 game.Dealt A 7 UTG. Limp, button raises, I call.Flop: K 7 8 I check, button bets, I raise.Turn: K 7 8 4 I bet, button calls.Turn: K 7 8 4 Q I bet, button folds...I show, button starts cursing about how he had pocket tens :twisted: 3) 7-handed, same players as 2A K on the buttonUTG raises, two cold callers (nice!), I threebet, all call. Flop: A 3 8 "This pot is so mine" I type into the chat. No one believes me :)UTG bets, two callers, I raise, all call.Turn: A:heart: 3 8:diamond: 3 : Checked to me, I bet, UTG raises me (?!) two folds. I don't believe him a bit. I reraise, he caps.River: A:heart: 3 8:diamond: 3 : 4 He bets, I raise, he finally slows down and calls.Hand history showed he had A Q He was probably thinking i was going for the split pot play, or had an overplayed pocket pair. I bet this hand would not have happened if I was playing my old tight style

[BeanGW]

In all those cases, you had a piece of the flop, albeit a small one, and were goin with the ultra-agressive play as a semi-bluff. I see nuttin wrong with it if it works for you.My only word of caution would be that you might want to mix up your play a bit. If you always show ultra -agression, you'll get to the point where no one will look you up when you really want to get paid off, or only when they've got the nutz. Specifically, you might want to slow down on the river. One of the other benefits of being ultra-agressive is that, when you are in late position, you will often times be checked to by a player on the river who has the best hand, and KNOWS that you'll take a shot at it. Sometimes it's good to just check it up on the end.Just some thoughts, sounds like it's workin fine for you.

[RonBurgundy]

BeanGW said:

If you always show ultra -agression, you'll get to the point where no one will look you up when you really want to get paid off, or only when they've got the nutz.

No, if you always show aggression, you WILL get paid off on your big hands, because fish are calling you down with second pair BECAUSE of the past aggression you have shown. So basically, the opposite of what you said.

[BeanGW]

RonBurgundy said:

BeanGW said:

If you always show ultra -agression, you'll get to the point where no one will look you up when you really want to get paid off, or only when they've got the nutz.

No, if you always show aggression, you WILL get paid off on your big hands, because fish are calling you down with second pair BECAUSE of the past aggression you have shown. So basically, the opposite of what you said.

True... I misspoke there. I guess I was thinkin more in terms of rooms with some solid players who will read your aggression and wait until they have a real strong hand before they play you... but when they do they'll push ya in.You're absolutely right that you can definitely nail the fish with ultra-aggressive play. But at the same time, you have to know who's sittin around you before you go too crazy with it. Pokertracker / Gametime + definitely helps out a lot with regards to that.

[obs]

Aggression after 7k hands of 3/6:Flop: 3.12Turn: 3.89River: 2.26So yea, I do this too. However, most of it is due to my table image I think. Yea do need to pick your targets though. Weak players are great for it.

[akishore]

nice, baby.i think if you kept up that aggression in our live game (albeit it's much easier and safer to do in limit than NL), you could really improve your game. plus, if you loosened up slightly and mixed up your game a little bit more, mike is right--you'll be a dangerous player.i LOVED those hands--they were beautiful.keep it up,aseem

[Rocketwadster]

I play this style a lot, and get chastized for it repeatedly on this site. I find nothing wrong with being agressive with second (or even bottom pair) in a lot of cases. Only difference being that I do not check raise very often (but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with how you played it). Nicely done in all hands posted in my opinion. :wink:

[KDawgCometh]

Rocketwadster said:

I play this style a lot, and get chastized for it repeatedly on this site. I find nothing wrong with being agressive with second (or even bottom pair) in a lot of cases. Only difference being that I do not check raise very often (but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with how you played it). Nicely done in all hands posted in my opinion. :wink:

no, you see the difference between what you do and what willy ahs done here is that Wily is using thought process in his play in that he's making his hands look different, instead of being a donk and riasing with 76s right behind a blind poster, or betting into a field with bottom pair, but setting it up like a flush draw instead, but obviously you don't see the difference :roll: . Yes you are definetly better then me :roll:

[Rocketwadster]

KDawgCometh said:

Rocketwadster said:

I play this style a lot, and get chastized for it repeatedly on this site. I find nothing wrong with being agressive with second (or even bottom pair) in a lot of cases. Only difference being that I do not check raise very often (but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with how you played it). Nicely done in all hands posted in my opinion. :wink:

no, you see the difference between what you do and what willy ahs done here is that Wily is using thought process in his play in that he's making his hands look different, instead of being a donk and riasing with 76s right behind a blind poster, or betting into a field with bottom pair, but setting it up like a flush draw instead, but obviously you don't see the difference :roll: . Yes you are definetly better then me :roll:

now your calling me a donk? wtf? I did not provide any comments in my post to garner such petty remarks. The guy asked for some thoughts, so I gave him mine. Why you thought you needed to strike out at me is beyond me. Tsk Tsk Tsk.

[KDawgCometh]

Rocketwadster said:

KDawgCometh said:

Rocketwadster said:

I play this style a lot, and get chastized for it repeatedly on this site. I find nothing wrong with being agressive with second (or even bottom pair) in a lot of cases. Only difference being that I do not check raise very often (but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with how you played it). Nicely done in all hands posted in my opinion. :wink:

no, you see the difference between what you do and what willy ahs done here is that Wily is using thought process in his play in that he's making his hands look different, instead of being a donk and riasing with 76s right behind a blind poster, or betting into a field with bottom pair, but setting it up like a flush draw instead, but obviously you don't see the difference :roll: . Yes you are definetly better then me :roll:

now your calling me a donk? wtf? I did not provide any comments in my post to garner such petty remarks. The guy asked for some thoughts, so I gave him mine. Why you thought you needed to strike out at me is beyond me. Tsk Tsk Tsk.

please point out where I said you were a donk. cause I don't see it in what I wrote. no, what I am saying is that you're whining about getting criticised about some plays of yours and I pointed out the difference between what you did and what Wily did. I can see his thought process, whereas I can't see yours

[Rocketwadster]

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instead of being a donk and riasing with 76s

am I to understand that this wasn't addressed to me? If it wasn't, then so be it. Also, I don't believe I was whining about being criticised, as I was simply stating a fact (in that you and others have criticised me for using some NL thought processes while playing limit). I have nothing against you KDawg, so i am not sure why you are prodding me in this post.

[KDawgCometh]

Rocketwadster said:

Quote

instead of being a donk and riasing with 76s

am I to understand that this wasn't addressed to me? If it wasn't, then so be it. Also, I don't believe I was whining about being criticised, as I was simply stating a fact (in that you and others have criticised me for using some NL thought processes while playing limit). I have nothing against you KDawg, so i am not sure why you are prodding me in this post.

touche. I can be crabby right afgter I wake up. Some of it comes from the extreme sarcasm you direct towards me, which needless to say makes me take much of what you say with a degree of vile. Its more your arrogance towards me if nothing else in how you come off in talking about what limits I play, when you play much lower then I do

[Rocketwadster]

Quote

touche. I can be crabby right afgter I wake up. Some of it comes from the extreme sarcasm you direct towards me, which needless to say makes me take much of what you say with a degree of vile. Its more your arrogance towards me if nothing else in how you come off in talking about what limits I play, when you play much lower then I do

to the best of my knowledge, I have only questioned the limits that you play when I read one of your comments directed towards another forum poster smack-talking him about the limits that he was "still" at. In that post, I simply pointed out that you may have been doing the exact same thing as he was by staying at $3/$6, when you clearly (in your mind as well as the minds of others at least) could be playing at higher limits if you so desired (ie. using credit cards to be your bankroll). Don't construe everything I write in response to one of your posts as sarcasm, as it is very difficult to know the tone of a person's writings (meaning that a lot of things that people type can be misconstrued).

[wrto4556]

The check/raise on the turn in hand 1 was pretty aweful.Everything else looked OK.

[KDawgCometh]

wrto4556 said:

The check/raise on the turn in hand 1 was pretty aweful.Everything else looked OK.

I actually don't mind it. He's CR semi-bluffing, as he can draw to the second nut flush(behind the straight flush possibility). I don't hate it, that's the thing, it's read dependant here

[adamkadmon]

One thing to keep in mind is your swings will invariably be larger. I play a similar style, ie. borderline maniac. Which is how i would catagorize these plays. Another aspect of this style is the fact that when things aren't going well, meaning, you haven't thrown away a winner in five hours, it becomes virtually imposible to play in this hyper aggresive style. This is when I revert back to my old stanby, skylanski. He's not my cup of tea but when things ain't going my way I go his way and wait for things to change.I liked all the plays and think you were wise to adopt these tendencies into your game, your gonna have a lot of fun, just be careful to always stay attuned to the subtle rythem that takes place at the table and things should go good. Have funKdog has always been cool and now he did seem to target so and so and I would like it to be known that I really appreciate Kdogs input and do not think that he really meant any real meaness because Kdog is just too damn cool to stoop to that level, right? God Bless K- DOG

[KDawgCometh]

adamkadmon said:

Kdog has always been cool and now he did seem to target so and so and I would like it to be known that I really appreciate Kdogs input and do not think that he really meant any real meaness because Kdog is just too damn cool to stoop to that level, right? God Bless K- DOG

well, I'm never above a flame war, but I got a little touchy cause Rocket has tried to call me out before when he was out of line and my normal reactions against him are ones of getting a little touchy. I do stand by my statemnet that at any level below 15/30 that raising with 76s right behind a blind poster is a bit donkish. When there is a poster in teh hand you need to tighten up your raising requirements not loosen them as you have more people to go through, especially at the levels most of us are playing. When you hit a more advanced level and a poster checks, then normally that indicates weakness, where as at the smaller levels it normally just indicates that they don't have a hand they feel like raising with. The person Rocket is refering to where he attempted to call me out on playing at 3/6 for the past couple foweeks and not using my CC to move up( which is really dumb, IMO. Yes I know I can play higher, but I'm not gonna just add $$$ to do that, I want to earn it), was me raggin on JFarrell. Now I will normally htrash the FCP village idiot(JFarrell) and the fact that he thinks he's an amazing player, but only plays .5/1 and hasn't moved up once since I joined kinda tells us how good he is. JFarrell also has tried several times to act like he is smart enough to change little rules of poker that make poker poker, but yet he is dumb enough when facing massive opposition to still stick to his guns. I can name the FCP posters that I don't like on one hand, and I feel that I'm cool with a bunch of us here, but when someone keeps on trying to act like they're better than me without solid proof then I ususally go on teh attack. There ARE defiently posters that are better then me, I don't even question that. I can even name some of them, as I have either played against them, or have lots of respect for them based on how they post and the limits they play at. ONe guy is Wannabe. He's real good. He jumped in on a 2/4 game that I was playing a few weeks ago and within like 15 hands I knew he was a real good player. It'd be really cool if he posted here more. DPianomn is a real good player too as we have gotten into some fun battles on the table. I could name more, but don't really feel like it. cest la vie