16 replies to this topic

[econ_tim]

$1/$2 NL HE at Full TiltI'm in MP2 with K Q and I'm first to enter, so I raise it to $6. MP3 calls and everyone else folds. Flop isJ Q 9 I bet $10 into a $15 pot, MP3 raises to $25, I fold.Now I think this is a very conservative play, but the flop is super coordinated, so there's a good chance I'm beaten or have a coin flip.What do you think?

[Wily]

econ_tim said:

$1/$2 NL HE at Full TiltI'm in MP2 with K Q and I'm first to enter, so I raise it to $6.  MP3 calls and everyone else folds.  Flop isJ Q 9  I bet $10 into a $15 pot, MP3 raises to $25, I fold.Now I think this is a very conservative play, but the flop is super coordinated, so there's a good chance I'm beaten or have a coin flip.What do you think?

Hmm . You know he could just as well do this with two diamonds with a pair, or even a naked 10. I'd say, bump it up to 40 - if he pushes, then you're probably no good, but if he slows down play a hard line if no draws hit. I don't think he has JJ or QQ - easy reraise preflop to what could be a blind steal. AQ is possible. 99 is possible. Usual answer - this depends a lot on your reads of him. Would he slow play a set on a dangerous board? Would he bluff with a draw?

[KDawgCometh]

yeah, bumping it to 40 or 50 is definetly the smart play. I mean serioulsy, what kind of flop were you expecting. You need to learn how to play action flops when you are probably ahead

[dbdbarry]

i agree with other replies. If he had something really good, he'd probably slow play it, not scare you off right away.

[custom36]

To answer this quesstion correctly, we need to know what you know about this guy. Is he lag? Is he a rock? Does he like to see a lot of flops? Your decisions should be based on this information as well, so until you give me your reads on him, I can't really help you.

[Absolute]

Am I the only one who likes calling and C/R the turn?

[econ_tim]

Custom36 said:

To answer this quesstion correctly, we need to know what you know about this guy.  Is he lag?  Is he a rock?  Does he like to see a lot of flops?  Your decisions should be based on this information as well, so until you give me your reads on him, I can't really help you.

Hadn't really played many hands with MP3, but he didn't seem particularly loose. The one big pot I was involved in with him before, I had A K and raised to $6 preflop, got several callers. Flop was rainbow [A 3 9]I bet the pot ($25), he raised it to $50, everyone else folded, and I reraised and he folded. Afterwards he claimed to have AJ, so he made an agressive, but reasonable play, if a somewhat loose call PF.So I was worried about him making another loose call in this hand and possibly having two pair, which would be a raising hand since there are so many draws to defend against.But I take the point that reraising would at least give me some information.

[Scott3705]

I'm actually going to disagree with the posters here. With his raise, there's 50 in the pot, if you bump it up to 40,(min raise) he only needs to call 15 with a pot of 65. Clearly giving him good odds to chase if he is really drawing.I doubt you are ahead here too.I always respect raises from well coordinated boards like this. The raiser may be on a very live draw. possibly 10 j diamonds which would puts u behind. This is a type of hand I would be raising with. Likewise I'm pushing with A 10 diamonds.YOu're not behind if this is the case, but you're not really ahead either. Best case scenario is Ax diamonds. I don'think he has a crap 10 like suggested not really a hand he's calling preflop with besides 10 10 10k, 10a, 109. He's also raising with a set trying to protect his hand in case you picked up a flush draw too. Same thing for JQ. Again, I don't like the raise here. With the raise he put out there's really only one scenario in my mind that puts u ahead enough to put in a substantial bet. And if you really think you had the best hand here, I think the raise has to be more. You just leave yourself open to be outplayed on the turn and the river because you have all these hands in your head that all would possibly smooth call a re re raise.Edit: This is without any reads and I just figure he's a solid player.

[Scott3705]

Absolute said:

Am I the only one who likes calling and C/R the turn?

I don't know. What do you think Check raising the turn is going to do?

[custom36]

econ_tim said:

Hadn't really played many hands with MP3, but he didn't seem particularly loose.  The one big pot I was involved in with him before, I had A K and raised to $6 preflop, got several callers.  Flop was rainbow [A 3 9]I bet the pot ($25), he raised it to $50, everyone else folded, and I reraised and he folded.  Afterwards he claimed to have AJ, so he made an agressive, but reasonable play, if a somewhat loose call PF.So I was worried about him making another loose call in this hand and possibly having two pair, which would be a raising hand since there are so many draws to defend against.But I take the point that reraising would at least give me some information.

I don't think he had AJ. I think he took a stab at the pot and when you reraised, he gave it up. I'm thinking that right now you're beat. I think he likely has JQ. If a K hits, then you still have to worry about whether or not he has a 10. Another diamond could be trouble as well. I like your fold.

[tskillz187]

fold and get more reads on this player, i wouldnt be ready to commit all my chips on very few reads with top pair good kicker in a highly coordinated board, find a better spot, i like the fold

[Scott3705]

Where'd everyone that was advocating a push go? I would really like to get more thoughts on this hand, because this is often a hand that I will take a stab at if I was the original aggressor and then just pass if I don't have any draws.

[Rocketwadster]

To answer the question that was asked, yes, yes you are gutless. Not sure what type of flop you were looking for with K Q offsuit if you don't want to play that one. :wink: I wasn't there though, so it is hard to say exactly what I would do though, as there are many variables to consider that you have not provided info on (ie. chip stacks, opponents tendancies, etc.) :?

[Scott3705]

Not sure what type of flop you were looking for with K Q offsuit if you don't want to play that one. If you're only going to make a pair with KQ offK 7 2 rainbow.If you want to play a big pot,KQ xkka10 j 9.I really don't agree with the two posters that are saying you need to learn how to play this flop hard. If I'm playing KQ off and catch top pair on an uncoodinated board, then i feel like i'm in the driver seat. But if i catch it on a very coordinated board, the last thing I want to do is play a bit pot with it. I'm hoping nobody caught a piece and that I can take it down at the flop. Other guy has position on him and has so many options to be able to outplay you at the turn even if he doesn't have you beat. I think folding here in a cash game is just fine.

[Rocketwadster]

Quote

I really don't agree with the two posters that are saying you need to learn how to play this flop hard. If I'm playing KQ off and catch top pair on an uncoodinated board, then i feel like i'm in the driver seat. But if i catch it on a very coordinated board, the last thing I want to do is play a bit pot with it. I'm hoping nobody caught a piece and that I can take it down at the flop. Other guy has position on him and has so many options to be able to outplay you at the turn even if he doesn't have you beat. I think folding here in a cash game is just fine.

I disagree that folding here is fine. I think you have to raise back first, and if re-raised back to you, then it is a clear fold. Who knows what this guy has...could be a gutshot straight draw... could be a flush draw...you never know. Sure, you could be beat rigth then and there, but simply folding to a re-raise just seems bad to me in this spot. If you fold here, you are showing the table that you can be pushed around, setting yourself up for even more "tough" decisions. Raise back or call is the way to go on this IMO. :wink:

[Scott3705]

I think the thing that I don't like about reraising here is that it's going to be expensive. I think the raise can't be to 40-50 as suggested earlier, I think it has to be more than that to show real strength. I think a legitimate raise would have to be around to 65-75. And that's just a lot m ore money than I want to commit to this hand. Calling could be ok to show that you're not going to be taken off a hand if you're really worried about it, but if you don't improve, you're facing a raise again. So I feel like it's throwing money out the window. Plus, you can't really feel confident that a K improves you. A black ten would be good though.Again, this is all assuming he's a somewhat solid player that mixes his play up once in awhile. Because in assuming this, i take the gut shot str8 draw out of here. I think the hand is a middle ground that you could find reasons to plaay it hard and reasons to lay it down. I think the choice you make it very dependent on the player and the table in general.

[adamkadmon]

This seems like a no brainer to me. He's got 15 bucks commited, he comes out betting the super scary flop, and gets raised a bunch. Get out and go on would be my thought process, I want to be the better not the chicken caller hoping the guy doesn't have one of a plethera of hands that can smear his. I suppose he could go all in but not real sure i like that play as much as the fold.