12 replies to this topic

[AbsolutKnuts]

Full Tilt No Limit MTT $2 buy in. 2nd hand so no reads/table image however have played against the villian before and have tagged him in previous games as a calling station.Full Tilt (9 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, Q. SB posts a blind of 10. 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks. Pot T$120Flop: 6, K, 4 (6 players)SB checks, Hero bets 70, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, SB folds. Pot T$260.Turn: 8 (2 players)Hero bets 200, MP2 calls. Pot T$660River: 3 (2 players)Hero bets 1210 (All-In), MP2 calls 1190 (All-In).Final Pot:

[donk4life]

Flop and turn bet sizes would be nice..

[AbsolutKnuts]

oops my bad.Fixed

[craiger]

This is one of those spots where you have to decide what his call on the turn means. ...is he getting attached to his K or is he hoping you bet again on the river because he has the A of spades? I'm not crazy about your huge bet on the river. Nine times out of ten you are only getting called by the hand that beats you. If he is a station then bet smaller (like 400 or 450), and if he raises you might be able to lay it down.

[Wingman008]

craiger, on Friday, January 4th, 2008, 8:55 PM, said:

I'm not crazy about your huge bet on the river. Nine times out of ten you are only getting called by the hand that beats you. If he is a station then bet smaller (like 400 or 450), and if he raises you might be able to lay it down.

I agree that the huge river bet is ridiculous, but I disagree with the reasoning.A huge overbet on the river signifies strength, so if he has a mediocre hand that he would be calling with normally, the gigantic bet is going to scare them off.Going along with that, we want the marginal hands to be calling, the lower flushes, straights, etc. The huge bet is going to be counter productive to getting them to put the money in.I disagree that we are going to get called by the hand that beats us more times than not. In these types tournaments any flush is going to call, and alot of the time, any two pair is also going to call.I think that the turn call shows he also hit his flush, and since you labeled him as a calling station I think that a lower flush is a much higher % than the Ace.

[AbsolutKnuts]

I agree that the over bet on the river is usually bad and i usually would size the river bet to about 500 - 600. However the reason i did it in this case is that i knew he was going to call me (with anything from one pr or better) and i knew he wasnt going to raise me. Given that i had the 2nd nuts i wanted to get all my money in against a player that most of the time i'm ahead of.

[craiger]

Wingman008, on Friday, January 4th, 2008, 11:07 PM, said:

I agree that the huge river bet is ridiculous, but I disagree with the reasoning.A huge overbet on the river signifies strength, so if he has a mediocre hand that he would be calling with normally, the gigantic bet is going to scare them off.Going along with that, we want the marginal hands to be calling, the lower flushes, straights, etc. The huge bet is going to be counter productive to getting them to put the money in.I disagree that we are going to get called by the hand that beats us more times than not. In these types tournaments any flush is going to call, and alot of the time, any two pair is also going to call.I think that the turn call shows he also hit his flush, and since you labeled him as a calling station I think that a lower flush is a much higher % than the Ace.

When I mentioned we are only getting called by a hand that beats us, I was referring to when we over-bet the river (and not a smaller bet)...that's why I suggested 400 to 450, because villain might call that with a J, T, 9 of spades, etc (and maybe even 2 pair as you said).

[throwemaway]

River overbet sucks..Your only getting called by better hands..He calls t300 with the J or 10 of spades, set, and 2 pair..He folds out those hands (typically) w/ the bet you took...Bet 1/2 the pot/fold if raised

[AbsolutKnuts]

In this situation is over betting the river ever right? is it going to give you a +EV longterm or is the better play what i shouldve done and placed a smaller river bet and maybe larger flop and turn bets?

[Sheiky]

No

[TravisG]

the thing is, youre only getting called by worse hands if your opponent is a donk at its maximum. nobody would risk the tournament there with J or T of spades, or even a set or something. you might get a mediocre hand feared, but thats not what you want. if you have the better hand, you want to extract the most chips out of him. so a raise from 300-450 should be fine.

[dingas]

Even though you have the 2nd nuts, you are more likely to lose a big pot than win one here. On the turn, betting 200 is fine, but I don't mind check-calling. On the river, bet 1/2 pot and fold to a raise.

[Darth Maple]

dingas, on Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 1:40 PM, said:

Even though you have the 2nd nuts, you are more likely to lose a big pot than win one here. On the turn, betting 200 is fine, but I don't mind check-calling. On the river, bet 1/2 pot and fold to a raise.

What he said,in the long run your going home early more often than not.