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$100-$200 Limit Hold'em Hand


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#21 Zach6668

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 10:24 AM

I certainly agree with everything in your most recent post.Probably, my biggest mistake in this thread was recounting my experiences based on the type of player I tend to play, rather than the type of played I'd assume you are, Daniel.All I play now is HU LHE, and basically, most of the guys will peel the flop with one overcard, and often even less, and will almost always bet when shown weakness. It's what makes c/c'ing rivers with marginal hands so great, and it makes this turn check/river call line so great.It's entirely possible this player isn't adapting to your style very well, or he's just a "robot" internet player.Fwiw though, I very rarely make K-high call downs in this spot, and usually I'm Ace high or better.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#22 JS18119

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 10:40 AM

I assume the button had King-high, but I don't think we ever heard his actual hand?

#23 Sheiky

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:01 AM

K6 wasn't it?

#24 navybuttons

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:03 AM

if a random 2 cards makes up zero percent of your flop calling range, then, of course, the call is atrocious. i figured (perhaps mistakingly) that it might be as it usually makes up some portion of the range of villains i play against.
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#25 JS18119

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 11:15 AM

View PostSheiky, on Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 1:01 PM, said:

K6 wasn't it?
Thought DN had K6, but I could be mistaken. I'm new at this...

#26 KoRnholio

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 12:15 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 11:17 AM, said:

I called the flop and bet the river because I had my opponent on exactly king high, or possibly worse.
If that is the case, shouldn't you check the river hoping to induce a bluff? He sounds passive and would most likely check behind with an ace or better king.

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The biggest mistake these guys all make is that they pay off way too much

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When the 8 hit the turn, though, I figured I had to bet in case he has king high or decides to fold ace high there
Which one is it? If he pays off too much, he isn't folding A high for sure, and will call many if any king highs. I think that your weak K high is best as a bluff catcher, based on what you've told us of the villain so far. A read on the villain in the original post is always nice :club:

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...(it's actually the right play vs. me for sure)
Just because YOU know it's the right play, doesn't mean that that thought ever even crossed his mind ;)PS- Don't flame me guys, I know it's DN and all, but people regularly get ripped on much worse for posting hands without reads and such. When posting hands in strat it shouldn't matter who you are, there should be constructive criticism given.
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#27 Zach6668

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 12:18 PM

View PostKoRnholio, on Saturday, January 5th, 2008, 3:15 PM, said:

PS- Don't flame me guys, I know it's DN and all, but people regularly get ripped on much worse for posting hands without reads and such. When posting hands in strat it shouldn't matter who you are, there should be constructive criticism given.
Agree, imo.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#28 Sheiky

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 01:49 PM

If you put him on exactly king high, why didn't you raise teh floop?What are you trying to make him think you have? I don't think you would play a Q/J this way at all, he would most likely expect you to 3-bet PF with 55+, i don't think he's gonna put you on a pair of two's either when you call PF and on the flop.Maybe calling with what he did is -EV long term, but i don't think you can blame him when i don't think he puts you on a strong hand here ever.

#29 Zach6668

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 01:50 PM

He doesn't have him on K high on the flop.If he does, it's a mistake.His range is essentially 100% of whatever his button raising range is.I'm really unfamiliar with 4-handed dynamics, so I don't know what that is, 50%, 60%?Either way, he's c-betting 100% of his range on this flop.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#30 alkaiser

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 07:09 PM

I would have folded that hand on the flop, dont see much hands im ahead. When I play that hand i raise on the flop and bet the turn and check/fold the river.My Villians range to call the river would be 22+ Ax.

#31 LuckyMcCatcher

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Posted 05 January 2008 - 10:49 PM

I need a read on villain before I am prepared to do anything, but I will say that most of the time this is a defensive check and you are getting valuetowned on the river so I would certainly need more than K high to call. No one with a brain tries to bluff the river after checking behind on the turn in a blind steal situation.
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#32 DinkDonk

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 01:08 AM

I'm very late into this but I would most likely call with all A-highs or better (depending on my image I may fold some of my worst A-highs) and instamuck all K-highs. I actually think this hand is pretty straightforward.

#33 Darth Maple

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 06:17 AM

Man, this forum is so sweeet!My first ever post, I have always followed Daniel on this site as I think he is the most down to earth, coolest guy at the tables. He speaks his mind which is very rare. Daniel all the best for 2008.I finally managed to sign up.Woooo

#34 Mattnxtc

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 01:23 PM

imo...Ax+ is instacalling the river bet. My question is was a c/r on the flop considered? That board almost never hits the villain and gets him to fold probably kx type hands.
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#35 Zach6668

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 01:41 PM

c/r bluffs are sooooooooo standard on those flops, no one folds to them. People try to bluff paired boards waaaaay too much, imo. The only way he folds is if he has a worse hand than our K3, fwiw.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#36 Mattnxtc

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 04:47 PM

View PostZach6668, on Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 1:41 PM, said:

c/r bluffs are sooooooooo standard on those flops, no one folds to them. People try to bluff paired boards waaaaay too much, imo. The only way he folds is if he has a worse hand than our K3, fwiw.
I definately agree but we are generally ahead of his range (assuming like 45-50% of hands) and we definately dont want to go to showdown with the hand as is.
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#37 Zach6668

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 05:04 PM

Yeah, but we open ourselves up to be rebluffed.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#38 Mattnxtc

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 06:51 PM

View PostZach6668, on Sunday, January 6th, 2008, 5:04 PM, said:

Yeah, but we open ourselves up to be rebluffed.
Agreed, but it also works to randomize our play and can buy us some freecards later with king high/ ace high hands later b/c he has to at least respect our c/r option
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#39 Zach6668

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 08:08 PM

I don't disagree with that.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#40 CobaltBlue

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Posted 06 January 2008 - 08:56 PM

In villain's shoes, I can picture a crying call with KT since he can still tie "your" KT or beat your K9.I think that Daniel needs to bet this river to attempt to get A-high and K-high to fold. I doubt villain drops A-high very often, but if villain has K9-K3, we should hopefully be able to drive him off. Didn't work in this case, but given pot odds, it was probably worth a shot.




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