Thoughts About Stud And Thinking Through To The River

[litlebullet 0]

HORSE - 7 Card Stud High ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)3rd Street - (0.70 SB)Seat 1: xx xx 6 : hart :___calls___callsSeat 2: xx xx K:club:___raisesSeat 3: xx xx 2:club:___brings-in___foldsSeat 4: xx xx 9:club:___foldsSeat 5: xx xx 6:spade:___foldsSeat 6: xx xx K:spade:___foldsHero: 3:heart: 4:spade: 6:diamond:___calls___calls4th Street - (4.20 SB)Seat 1: xx xx 6:heart: J:club:___callsSeat 2: xx xx K:club: A:spade:___betsHero: 3:heart: 4:spade: 6:diamond: 7:diamond:___calls5th Street - (3.60 BB)Seat 1: xx xx 6:heart: J:club: T:club:___callsSeat 2: xx xx K:club: A:spade: 9:diamond:___betsHero: 3:heart: 4:spade: 6:diamond: 7:diamond: T:spade:___folds6th Street - (5.60 BB)Seat 1: xx xx 6:heart: J:club: T:club: 7:heart:___callsSeat 2: xx xx K:club: A:spade: 9:diamond: A:heart:___betsRiver - (7.60 BB)Seat 1: xx xx 6:heart: J:club: T:club: 7:heart: xx___foldsSeat 2: xx xx K:club: A:spade: 9:diamond: A:heart: xx___betsTotal pot: (7.60 BB)My hand is not the important part I'm concerned about. I'm trying to think about Seat 2 and what is going on in this hand when you observe it and whether there's ever really a need to bet on the river when he has aces showing.My thoughts on this hand:What does seat two have: seat two is obv. repping split kings here. He could also have an ace in the hole and another broadway to go with his ak. I am fairly sure he has either split kings or ak in the hole. Seat one probably has hearts or 3 connecting cards, just as I had I was in teh hand because all my cards were live. I believe its a fairly reasonable assertation that seat one was drawing.Of course this is low limit so we can not expect seat one to get out when he misses and catches bad on 4th and 5th. Seat two plays the hand standard, bets each street. Standard low limit stuff here.Now this is where I think the hand gets more interesting: 6th street. Seat one finally gets a card he continue with. Take it from here, friends. Should seat 2 bet with his aces and kings or 3 aces on 7th? What would a bet there accomplish? It sure as heck can't be a value bet if there's no way seat 1 will call with anything less than his filled straight or flush. Only thing a bet does to you if we're seat two is have a raise shoved down our throats. I think not betting is weird, but quite frankly, I can't think of a reason to bet.

[drcossack 0]

It serves as a blocking-type bet, really.If he gets raised on the river, he can fold. Seat one only has to be right 1 time in 7 (Or is it 8? I don't want to do the math) if he has a pair, which is worth a call.just a nitpick: all your cards were not live on 3rd. There was a dead 2.

[litlebullet 0]

It serves as a blocking-type bet, really.If he gets raised on the river, he can fold. Seat one only has to be right 1 time in 7 (Or is it 8? I don't want to do the math) if he has a pair, which is worth a call.

seat 8 is showing a pair of aces so seat 1 needs at least 2-pair to call the river bet. He's not blocking anything lol. I guess it becomes a bet for value if he can get called by a smaller 2-pair but what are the odds of seat 1 having a smaller two pair.

just a nitpick: all your cards were not live on 3rd. There was a dead 2.

ahh ty

[Frez 0]

more nitpick: your cards weren't connected either. The dead 2 is irrelevant. You can play a gap like this if all your cards are live facecards, but not unsuited babies. I know you said this is not about your hand, but WTH? Next level this is not.Anyways, to the point, I don't like the river bet as a blocking bet. In fact I'm not even sure you can apply that concept to a limit game. I subscribe to the school of not making river bets that are only going to be called/raised by a better hand. Unless I know seat one is an utter and complete calling station who will call with a worse two pair I think 7th should be a c/c.

[drcossack 0]

seat 8 is showing a pair of aces so seat 1 needs at least 2-pair to call the river bet. He's not blocking anything lol. I guess it becomes a bet for value if he can get called by a smaller 2-pair but what are the odds of seat 1 having a smaller two pair.ahh ty

You'd be surprised what people call with at those limits.

more nitpick: your cards weren't connected either. The dead 2 is irrelevant. You can play a gap like this if all your cards are live facecards, but not unsuited babies. I know you said this is not about your hand, but WTH? Next level this is not.Anyways, to the point, I don't like the river bet as a blocking bet. In fact I'm not even sure you can apply that concept to a limit game. I subscribe to the school of not making river bets that are only going to be called/raised by a better hand. Unless I know seat one is an utter and complete calling station who will call with a worse two pair I think 7th should be a c/c.

Fair enough - I just pulled a random term out of my ass for that.Most players at these limits are calling stations. Chances are you will get called more often than not. Hell, I've had people with one pair hands betting into me when they can't possibly win - I might c/c in that spot, but betting is absolutely suicidal.

[SpiderGuard 0]

more nitpick: your cards weren't connected either. The dead 2 is irrelevant. You can play a gap like this if all your cards are live facecards, but not unsuited babies. I know you said this is not about your hand, but WTH? Next level this is not.

+1. In Stud High this is an instamuck preflop.

Anyways, to the point, I don't like the river bet as a blocking bet. In fact I'm not even sure you can apply that concept to a limit game. I subscribe to the school of not making river bets that are only going to be called/raised by a better hand. Unless I know seat one is an utter and complete calling station who will call with a worse two pair I think 7th should be a c/c.

I disagree here - from my limited experience in micro Stud, it's all about value betting. This bet gets called far more than it runs in to a re-raise from a better hand.I agree in principle, but at this level you get far more value out of betting here. Villain's action with a worse hand are probably 70% muck, 30% call. That seems like enough to make this a profitable play.

[litlebullet 0]

more nitpick: your cards weren't connected either. The dead 2 is irrelevant. You can play a gap like this if all your cards are live facecards, but not unsuited babies. I know you said this is not about your hand, but WTH? Next level this is not.

whoa whoa here no more nitpicking here I attack the blinds and antes in this game quite often and I will play babies from this position if I am the first one in. Often, if I limp here, everyone folds, then I am one on one vs the bring in and I can usually take the pot on 4th or 5th. My decision to enter the pot is not some kind of extreme donk decision that will instantly make me a losing player like you are implying. The two people to act after me didn't have a particularly frightening board either, the king that awoke already had one of his cards dead. If you never try to take antes and bring-ins when trying to do so is apparently the right thing to do, maybe you need to look at your game as well.

[SpiderGuard 0]

whoa whoa here no more nitpicking here I attack the blinds and antes in this game quite often and I will play babies from this position if I am the first one in. Often, if I limp here, everyone folds, then I am one on one vs the bring in and I can usually take the pot on 4th or 5th.

If this is what you're trying to do, then I'd probably raise rather than limp. Limp on 3rd + bet on 4th absolutely screams "I'm bluffing to scare the bring-in away" to me. That and the fact that if he has a pair of 7's buried or hits a pair of 7's on 4th you're drawing extremely thin makes me think there are better lines to take (completing on third).

[Frez 0]

This bet gets called far more than it runs in to a re-raise from a better hand.I agree in principle, but at this level you get far more value out of betting here. Villain's action with a worse hand are probably 70% muck, 30% call. That seems like enough to make this a profitable play.

To make this river bet you need to be 55-60% sure you have the best hand, not when you bet, but when you are called.

whoa whoa here no more nitpicking here I attack the blinds and antes in this game quite often and I will play babies from this position if I am the first one in. Often, if I limp here, everyone folds, then I am one on one vs the bring in and I can usually take the pot on 4th or 5th. My decision to enter the pot is not some kind of extreme donk decision that will instantly make me a losing player like you are implying. The two people to act after me didn't have a particularly frightening board either, the king that awoke already had one of his cards dead. If you never try to take antes and bring-ins when trying to do so is apparently the right thing to do, maybe you need to look at your game as well.

What are there, 5600 or so stud starting hands? You can pick a better spot to make steals (and you should know me well enough by now not to suggest I never steal). Just the fact that there are two other sixes out makes this a bad spot. Pick something like [49]J to make a steal with in this situation. The chance that someone has a hand behind you or does hit a good card on 4th means that even on a steal you should start with something that has a hope to improve.And if you are going to steal, then steal raise to take the initiative. Your limp makes if correct for any two cards bigger than a 6 to pay the mini bet and try to hit 4th.Anyways, I think we agreed that the river bet by seat two is not a good play.And, I know it's a bit of a pain, but if you put a space before and after the colon on '' you get .