Shoving With 55

[king_tanner 84]

Trying to get back in tourney mode... usually a cash game player. These are the 2 hands where I lost all my chips both with 55 in the top 80 or so in the Full Tilt Midnight Madness tourney. I was chatting with a couple FCPers on AIM and they said I made the right move both times, but I'd like you guys to critique for me.First 55, Raiser was pushing a lot, I thought with a big pocket pair he would raise more which is why I put him on overcards. I was ready to flip, but he ended up having me dominated... too aggressive???Full Tilt Poker Game #4595359679: Midnight Madness! (34237698), Table 147 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:03:05 ET - 2007/12/23Seat 1: hestiaboys (20,991)Seat 3: DEKE971 (14,020)Seat 4: gt_IV (36,435)Seat 5: brianpeake (57,279)Seat 6: grooverider80 (4,710)Seat 7: drik (12,949)Seat 8: DucksRule08 (56,163)Seat 9: King_Tanner (37,640)hestiaboys antes 150DEKE971 antes 150gt_IV antes 150brianpeake antes 150grooverider80 antes 150drik antes 150DucksRule08 antes 150King_Tanner antes 150King_Tanner posts the small blind of 600hestiaboys posts the big blind of 1,200The button is in seat #8*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to King_Tanner [5c 5s]DEKE971 raises to 3,000gt_IV foldsbrianpeake foldsgrooverider80 foldsdrik foldsDucksRule08 foldsKing_Tanner has 15 seconds left to actKing_Tanner raises to 11,400hestiaboys foldsDEKE971 has 15 seconds left to actDEKE971 has requested TIMEDucksRule08: so aronld in jingle all the way.....greatest movie everDEKE971 raises to 13,870, and is all inKing_Tanner calls 2,470DEKE971 shows [Tc Ts]King_Tanner shows [5c 5s]*** FLOP *** [As Kh Qs]Studinator (Observer): 5!*** TURN *** [As Kh Qs] [4h]*** RIVER *** [As Kh Qs 4h] [Qd]DEKE971 shows two pair, Queens and TensKing_Tanner shows two pair, Queens and FivesDEKE971 wins the pot (30,140) with two pair, Queens and TensThe blinds are now 800/1,600 with an ante of 200*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 30,140 | Rake 0Board: [As Kh Qs 4h Qd]Seat 1: hestiaboys (big blind) folded before the FlopSeat 3: DEKE971 showed [Tc Ts] and won (30,140) with two pair, Queens and TensSeat 4: gt_IV folded before the FlopSeat 5: brianpeake folded before the FlopSeat 6: grooverider80 folded before the FlopSeat 7: drik folded before the FlopSeat 8: DucksRule08 (button) folded before the FlopSeat 9: King_Tanner (small blind) showed [5c 5s] and lost with two pair, Queens and FivesSecond 55.... I was playing pretty tight the SB was raising my big blind a lot and I was folding. I figured with a guy limping on the button, he would have to make a raise if he had an ok or good hand, with the limps I put both players on not strong hands which is why I pushed. I couldn't believe sb limped with 99.Full Tilt Poker Game #4595392212: Midnight Madness! (34237698), Table 147 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:08:06 ET - 2007/12/23Seat 1: hestiaboys (17,641)Seat 2: YOUNGBLOOD71 (56,365)Seat 3: DEKE971 (47,060)Seat 4: gt_IV (24,585)Seat 5: brianpeake (50,070)Seat 6: grooverider80 (5,300)Seat 7: drik (25,198)Seat 8: DucksRule08 (53,213)Seat 9: King_Tanner (17,920)hestiaboys antes 200YOUNGBLOOD71 antes 200DEKE971 antes 200gt_IV antes 200brianpeake antes 200grooverider80 antes 200drik antes 200DucksRule08 antes 200King_Tanner antes 200DucksRule08 posts the small blind of 800King_Tanner posts the big blind of 1,600The button is in seat #7*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to King_Tanner [5c 5h]hestiaboys foldsYOUNGBLOOD71 foldsDEKE971 foldsgt_IV foldsbrianpeake foldsgrooverider80 foldsdrik calls 1,600DucksRule08 calls 800King_Tanner has 15 seconds left to actKing_Tanner raises to 17,720, and is all indrik foldsDucksRule08: hmmmDucksRule08 has 15 seconds left to actDucksRule08 has requested TIMEtuckermitchell (Observer): just foldDucksRule08: glStudinator (Observer): loooooooolDucksRule08 calls 16,120King_Tanner shows [5c 5h]DucksRule08 shows [9d 9h]*** FLOP *** [Js 4h Td]tuckermitchell (Observer): damnit*** TURN *** [Js 4h Td] [6h]tuckermitchell (Observer): 5*** RIVER *** [Js 4h Td 6h] [8c]King_Tanner shows a pair of FivesDucksRule08 shows a pair of NinesDucksRule08 wins the pot (38,840) with a pair of NinesKing_Tanner stands up

[Actuary 3]

You played aweful

[jmbreslin 0]

2nd hand is okay, though a button limp at this blind level is a bit suspicious, but the first hand is brutal. A shortstack raising for 1/4 his chips from UTG when he should be pushing any raise is a huge red flag, especially when you say he had been pushing a lot! That just screams big pair. Throw your 55 away.

[E-Cart6 0]

2nd hand is okay, though a button limp at this blind level is a bit suspicious, but the first hand is brutal. A shortstack raising for 1/4 his chips from UTG when he should be pushing any raise is a huge red flag, especially when you say he had been pushing a lot! That just screams big pair. Throw your 55 away.

Yup, there's a line in HoH on this. Something like:When a shortstack that could've just pushed allin suddenly decides to make a normal raise for a small part of his chips it means he wants action and usually has a big hand.

[drcossack 0]

Yup, there's a line in HoH on this. Something like:When a shortstack that could've just pushed allin suddenly decides to make a normal raise for a small part of his chips it means he wants action and usually has a big hand.

Couldn't that play also be made with something like AK? It doesn't necessarily have to be a big pocket pair.

[jmbreslin 0]

Not likely, because AK isn't really an "I have a monster and want action hand," it's more of an "I have a potential monster and want to get it all in and see all 5 cards" hand.

[king_tanner 84]

You played aweful

Thanks lol.... I was surprised when I saw that you have 17,000 poststhanks for the help guys

[Actuary 3]

Thanks lol.... I was surprised when I saw that you have 17,000 posts

I was suprised to see you can operate a keyboard given your inability to read simple posting guidlines

[king_tanner 84]

I was suprised to see you can operate a keyboard given your inability to read simple posting guidlines

If your going to be such a smart ass will you tell me what I did wrong.Not revealing the opponent's hand is not a big deal since we were all in preflop both times.I didn't convert the hand, but I'm sure everyone can read FT hand histories by now.Are you this big of an a**hole everytime someone makes a mistake in this forum? Or did I just catch you at the wrong time of the month?I apologize if I made a mistake in the format of my post, I just started posting in strat. If I did something wrong tell me what I did wrong instead of being a jerk.

[Actuary 3]

If your going to be such a smart ass will you tell me what I did wrong.

I did not read the entire hand but I saw that you lost

Not revealing the opponent's hand is not a big deal since we were all in preflop both times.

You justification is unrelated to the crimeWe dont' show results because it influences how others judge your play

Are you this big of an a**hole everytime someone makes a mistake in this forum?

on a good day

I apologize if I made a mistake in the format of my post, I just started posting in strat. If I did something wrong tell me what I did wrong instead of being a jerk.

Read thishttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=87906

[king_tanner 84]

I did not read the entire hand but I saw that you lostRead thishttp://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...showtopic=87906

I read it, I just didnt feel the opponent's hand mattered which is why I didn't delete it. The question was about whether it was appropriate to shove pre-flop or not. In the future I will remember not to include the opponents hand.Do you come to the strategy forum to correct people's errors, or do you actually contribute in here? How do you think I played both the hands? If you really don't give a shit then why even post?

[vbnautilus 49]

I do think you are overvaluing your fives. In the end, they are just a pair of fives. First hand -- the BEST you can do with your 5's is 50/50. Some of the time you will be behind a bigger pocket pair. That means you are really relying heavily on fold equity to make this play profitable. This guy has just raised 25% of his stack from UTG, so I don't think this is a spot where you have much FE. I think its a clear fold. Second hand, ok you are quite short, and you do have some FE as there's no reason to put SB or button on a real hand.

[Actuary 3]

Do you come to the strategy forum to correct people's errors, or do you actually contribute in here?

I have a handful of posts where I actually try to help others

If you really don't give a shit then why even post?

to play quasi-mod.

[sactownjoey 0]

I really don't like to shove small pocket pairs from the blinds into an opened pot because a caller is going to get to see all 5 cards and you have almost no chance of improving your hand. I really wouldn't want to shove into a raised pot, especially with the fishy raise noted above.I can understand the shove in the second hand if you did it because you were short stacked but I would look for better situations to try and get my chips in the pot.

[simo_8ball 1]

1) Reading unmodified hand histories is really annoying.2) Converting them is simple.3) Results affect responses. They really do.4) See 3).5) Actuary should be a mod. Whether he wants to be one or not.