24 replies to this topic

[bossyrossy]

FTR Hand History Converter Output (intended for copying and pasting into poker forums!):

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($217.90)
Button ($492.75)
SB ($186.95)
Hero ($196)
UTG ($74.85)
MP ($263.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A.
UTG calls $2, 1 fold, CO raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero raises to $16, UTG folds, CO calls $10.

Flop: ($35) 3, Q, K (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $10, Hero raises to $30, CO raises to $201.9, Hero calls $150 (All-In).

Turn: ($395) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($395) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $395

[bdc30]

Lead the flop.

If you plan to check/raise, make it a bigger one at least to $40-50 (pot size)

bbfidts (actually, so is nlhef)

[Zach6668]

Why the **** did you check raise?

Serious question.

[Acid_Knight]

Reraise bigger preflop.
DO NOT CHECK RAISE THE FLOP!!!!
bbfidts

[bossyrossy]

Even if I lead the flop, I still see myself going broke here. I mean say I had done that, bet around the pot and he calls. Do you fire again at the turn?

I checked as he was very agressive and I knew he would bet any pair and try to reprent a big hand. I agree I should have check raised a larger amount, then it may have been an easier laydown.

[Acid_Knight]

always checking flops to c/r an aggro villain is not the best idea. just lead out, get raised and then 3 bet all in.

[jack24bauer24]

Unless he's a complete douche he has kq at a minimum here.

[IBFT]

Unless he's a complete douche he has kq at a minimum here.

JT of hearts makes sense here, depending on villian.

His preflop raise doesnt really say too much strength, and he could definitely be raising light in position. His call of hero's reraise is almost automatic, since the reraise was way too small. If my math is right (and it usually isn't) villain had to call $10 to see $25, so he's getting a good price.

That said, JT sooted is the ONLY hand I think you're beating here. (Unless he just plays AK really poorly)

[d0c]

Preflop 3bet too small. You're giving odds to almost anything that made the bet in first place. I would add also KhJh to his range

[Royal_Tour]

just a quick note, as some of our members are silly.

I'm not sure if i'll be wording this correctly, but anyways a c/r on this flop should only be used as a way to really find out if you're behind to hands you think he held that have hit.

if you put him on a KQ , KK or QQ holding, you should be letting this go when he 3 bets all in. Your c/r signifies strength and not a C-bet. It shows you didnt care if he checked behind.

Like others have said, you should be leading this flop, but if for some reason you believe this flop hit your opponent and you set up the c/r to find out info, well you have the info and should fold.

as played its a fold. If I played it, i would raise more preflop, and lead the flop.

[mtdesmoines]

Check-raise harder. $60-$75. KQ ... I don't think so ... Villain's range is usually AK KK QQ suited connectors ... Villain holds AK here so many times it's silly. We're behind about 40% of his range, ahead of 60% ... I get really confused if he re-raises my check-raise. AA is only one pair, and I hate going broke with it unless I know something about the villain. Our read also depends our behavior ... IOW, villain's read on us.

Getting outdrawn by a combo draw here is not a bad beat.

[bossyrossy]

Thanks guys, some really good responses there. I now know I really should have raised more preflop, in which case we might have got it all in pre...lost anyway, but hey I would have got the money in ahead and thats all I can do.

In future I think I will raise more pre. Would you say around $25-30 would have been the right amount?

He has KK by the way, didnt realise this wasn't shown on the HH

[Jadaki]

Thanks guys, some really good responses there. I now know I really should have raised more preflop, in which case we might have got it all in pre...lost anyway, but hey I would have got the money in ahead and thats all I can do.

In future I think I will raise more pre. Would you say around $25-30 would have been the right amount?

I probably go 20-24. It's enough that some hands you are way ahead of can call incorrectly, but not enough that it's blowing him completely out of the pot.

[GabeTheKid]

Reraise bigger preflop.
DO NOT CHECK RAISE THE FLOP!!!!
bbfidts

[GabeTheKid]

Thanks guys, some really good responses there. I now know I really should have raised more preflop, in which case we might have got it all in pre...lost anyway, but hey I would have got the money in ahead and thats all I can do.

In future I think I will raise more pre. Would you say around $25-30 would have been the right amount?

He has KK by the way, didnt realise this wasn't shown on the HH

30 is too much.

24 is good

[Zach6668]

just a quick note, as some of our members are silly.

I'm not sure if i'll be wording this correctly, but anyways a c/r on this flop should only be used as a way to really find out if you're behind to hands you think he held that have hit.

if you put him on a KQ , KK or QQ holding, you should be letting this go when he 3 bets all in. Your c/r signifies strength and not a C-bet. It shows you didnt care if he checked behind.

Like others have said, you should be leading this flop, but if for some reason you believe this flop hit your opponent and you set up the c/r to find out info, well you have the info and should fold.

as played its a fold. If I played it, i would raise more preflop, and lead the flop.

I think a c/r for information is a massive spew.

We can c/r for value, certainly, but not for information, alone.

I don't know if we get any better info from his reaction to our c/r than we do to a standard c-bet, at least when comparing the relative prices of each, where a c/r is way more expensive.

[Acid_Knight]

c/r for info provides one kind of info only:

checkraiser = spewmonkey

[Royal_Tour]

I think a c/r for information is a massive spew.

We can c/r for value, certainly, but not for information, alone.

I don't know if we get any better info from his reaction to our c/r than we do to a standard c-bet, at least when comparing the relative prices of each, where a c/r is way more expensive.

c/r for info provides one kind of info only:

checkraiser = spewmonkey

you guys are silly.

whats your line? C-bet, villain raise, hero 3 bet all in? thats not a spew? you guys have successfully managed to eliminate a fold option.

[Acid_Knight]

you guys are silly.

whats your line? C-bet, villain raise, hero 3 bet all in? thats not a spew? you guys have successfully managed to eliminate a fold option.

we have AA, who'd wanna fold?








(sw)










If you c/r, it's not for information, it's for value. That's the key concept. Nobody's saying that if you get 3-bet that it isn't time to fold. The idea is that when you do choose to c/r, it should be because you're pretty sure you've got the best hand, not becuase you're unsure if you've got the best hand or not.

[Royal_Tour]

we have AA, who'd wanna fold?
(sw)
If you c/r, it's not for information, it's for value. That's the key concept. Nobody's saying that if you get 3-bet that it isn't time to fold. The idea is that when you do choose to c/r, it should be because you're pretty sure you've got the best hand, not becuase you're unsure if you've got the best hand or not.

I disagree, Who says a c/r should only be used for value? Obviously thats what most people use it for, but why should you eliminate it from your arsenal just because its usually used as a way to extract value.

Too many people are too concerned with playing their hand a certain way, when they should be asking what does villain hold in his range that I beat, what beats me, what does he think I have that he beats, and when will I know when i'm beat, or when will I know I'm still ahead.

You guys have told him what not too do, and what to do preflop and as 1st to act on the flop.But no one has finished the hand.

My guess is he leads out 25, villain raise to 60 (maybe he wuld raise more) and do we fold now? You would say No, you would 3-bet all in. How is this line optimal?


If its aces vs kings, then he probably should have got them all in preflop somehow. especially for stacks of 100bb's or less. thats the only thing i can think of that makes more sense.