Getting Max Value On The River

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

After reviewing this hand I think I played it very badly. I would love your opinions on how you would play it.Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem TournamentBlinds: t600/t1200(Ante: t150)8 playersConverterUTG (14597)UTG +1(51249)MP (42430)MP2 (14772)MP3 (11216)Button (34502)Hero-SB (30736)BB (22935)Pre-flop: (8 players) hero is SB with UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t1200 (pot was t3000), 4 folds, hero calls t600 (pot was t4200), BB checks.Flop: (t4800, 3 players)hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets t1200, hero calls t1200 (pot was t6000), BB calls t1200 (pot was t7200).Turn: (t8400, 3 players)hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets t1200, hero calls t1200 (pot was t9600), BB calls t1200 (pot was t10800).River: (t12000, 3 players)HERO??????????

[throwemaway 0]

Need stack sizes

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

Need stack sizes

Sorry, this is the first time I used the converter. Edited OP to reflect stack sizes

[Wingman008 0]

Call PF: I can see it.Flop: I'm ok with the c/cTurn: I think we should be repopping it, make it 5-6k I think.River: If anyone calls, Shove. Hopefully they have a big pair, otherwise I think they would be calling regardless cause the only thing they aren't chopping with is your case 5.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

Bump for more answers

[jmbreslin 0]

I'm not crazy the PF call. With the blinds and antes, your M is only about 10 at this point so you're not deep enough IMO to be calling in the SB with very marginal hands. I realize you're getting about 7-1 here, but the chances of this turning into a money-making hand for you are very, very slim.I think I might lead the flop. You only have 2 villains in the hand, neither of which have shown PF aggression, so there is no reason to be confident that one of them will bet. Nobody will expect you to have hit that flop hard, so leading out may look like you're taking a stab with a weak PP. You also have to be a bit careful of the heart draw. I'd probably lead for 1/3 pot and hope I either get raised or someone comes along for the ride. If they both fold, you at least add 4800 chips to your stack.Once you hit the boat on the turn, I'm fine with the check-call. Given the weak betting I think a check-raise would be a huge show of strength and would probably win you the pot right there. Not a bad thing, but you'd like to squeeze out some more chips if you can.River I think is a trivial decision. No PP is going to fold to a lead here, but they might be reluctant to lead if they fear a higher PP. I'd probably just lead out for about 3000 and hope the odds are too tempting for at least one of them.

[Sheiky 0]

Calling PF is fine, i think it's too nitty to fold 7-1 with no one showing any signs of strength.I would raise the turn because i don't want to be in this spot on the river, if you had position i think calling is superior but as you have to act fist on the river and you have no real idea what anyone has it's harder to get value.

[throwemaway 0]

I usually bet the flop in these situations in hopes of building a pot...EP limpers are often times pairs, so your almost assuredly getting a call if that is the case, maybe even sometimes a raise..My bet would be t2400If I bet the flop, I usually check the turn and let him try to take a stab since really if I bet, he shouldn't be calling with anything he limps with unless its a 5 or 2, which is very very unlikelyOn the river, you definitely have to bet, but an amount that he will call..Usually I 1/2 pot my value bets, but others can chime in..In this situation with the boat on board, you are much more likely to be called light, especially if he has a pair..I would probably go with 3/4 of the pot

[Sheiky 0]

I think 3/4 of the pot is a too much here, yes you'll get called a bit lighter due to the board, but from the way the hand has played out no one is screaming to me that they have a hand worth putting any real money into the pot, i'd lead for about 3.5/4k here.

[throwemaway 0]

I think 3/4 of the pot is a too much here, yes you'll get called a bit lighter due to the board, but from the way the hand has played out no one is screaming to me that they have a hand worth putting any real money into the pot, i'd lead for about 3.5/4k here.

People are idiots..our hand is underrepped and there is a full house on board..Were getting paid a lot of time with a 3/4 pot betWhats the buy in here

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

People are idiots..our hand is underrepped and there is a full house on board..Were getting paid a lot of time with a 3/4 pot betWhats the buy in here

5.50 KO on FT

[throwemaway 0]

5.50 KO on FT

Yep I stand by my 3/4th pot betFine, maybe we can comprise..2/3rd pot?

[Sheiky 0]

Mmmm, 12/20ths, final offer.On a more serious note though, i think the fact that they're stupid players could lean towards my argument more because they were so stupid they called two streets with a really weak hand that they'll fold to anything more than a 12/20 pot size bet.

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

If we consider the stakes and the action up to the river, is a river shove a viable move? With a board reading 55522 and two players who have shown relatively little strength is a shove +/- EV?Would one (or both) players call a shove looking at it as a steal?

[throwemaway 0]

Mmmm, 12/20ths, final offer.On a more serious note though, i think the fact that they're stupid players could lean towards my argument more because they were so stupid they called two streets with a really weak hand that they'll fold to anything more than a 12/20 pot size bet.

When I think of bad players, I think they are more calling station esque..Thus we should bet more and punish that tendencyOP: Were these players more weak/tight, calling stations, aggro donks, or non descript donks? Or the best players on the interwebs and they decided to have some fun in a 5 dollar tourney?

[throwemaway 0]

If we consider the stakes and the action up to the river, is a river shove a viable move? With a board reading 55522 and two players who have shown relatively little strength is a shove +/- EV?Would one (or both) players call a shove looking at it as a steal?

I actually kinda like that idea...Your play to this far looks kind of like a flush draw..I think we get called enough to make that +ev

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

When I think of bad players, I think they are more calling station esque..Thus we should bet more and punish that tendencyOP: Were these players more weak/tight, calling stations, aggro donks, or non descript donks? Or the best players on the interwebs and they decided to have some fun in a 5 dollar tourney?

I had just been moved to this table, so no real reads on anyone.

[jjgoldy5 0]

I honestly think both players are playing the board here, the BB either missed a draw or had his deuce counterfeited on the river, and UTG+1 isnt accomplishing anything with his min-bets with a pair.With that said, bad players are more likely to call on the river playing the board, and if UTG+1 has some sort of pair he'll call a decent sized betBasically...they either have nothing and will check or fold and you get nothingor they have a hand and will call a strong river betBet something in the 1/2 - 3/4 pot leaning towards 3/4 on the river.I would advocate a river overbet here if either player had shown strength....they're just too weak to overbet here though I think

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

This was the first strat thread I started, so I'm just wondering when to post what the villians hands were.

[throwemaway 0]

This was the first strat thread I started, so I'm just wondering when to post what the villians hands were.

Whenever the discussion has run its course, usually 3 or 4 days is the trickI think your OK to post results now

[Novice26 0]

half pot bet, maybe a little more, about 6000 on river

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

Whenever the discussion has run its course, usually 3 or 4 days is the trickI think your OK to post results now

The player UTG that limped held KQo. The BB held 44. After the tourney was over and I thought about the hand, I thought a river shove might have gotten a call from the BB. If it looks like I'm playing the board and trying to steal, he has the hand to call me with.

[throwemaway 0]

The player UTG that limped held KQo. The BB held 44. After the tourney was over and I thought about the hand, I thought a river shove might have gotten a call from the BB. If it looks like I'm playing the board and trying to steal, he has the hand to call me with.

How much did you bet>? Please tell me you didn't check

[Buckeye Hughes 0]

How much did you bet>? Please tell me you didn't check

Wish I could. I thought one of them would fire again, and clicked the check button. Needless to say, both players checked the river as well.I know I played it horrendously, but I guess chalk it up as an experience of what not to do.

[AimHigher 0]

You missed value on the turn, but you should definitely bet the river hard. Overpairs will pay you off here.