I Want To Be Like Phil,.....hellmuth That Is

[Royal_Tour 0]

1/2 NL live. Mid day - mid week. main game.Hero - 300villain 300villain in this hand is a regular 2/5NL player waiting for a seat to open. He isnt a LAG, but he does come from a wealthy family, which is why he plays 2/5. I've played with him a handfull of times at 1/2 and 2/5 and I've never lost money to him, but i have seen him make some decent plays & reads.He's ok, but not great.hero is hijack with 8d8cUTG fold, Villain call, 2 folds, MP call, hero raise to 10., 4 folds, villain call MP foldHeads up ($25)flop As, 4c, 7svillain leads 15, hero call. (standard? anyone raise?)turn 4dvillain bets 35, Hero call. thoughts?My thought process on the turn was that he wanted me off the hand. FD, or complete air? not 100% sure, but any Ace has showdown value and I couldt understand why he would want to push me out.

[nomad_monad 0]

why can't villain have an A (or better) and be charging you for a draw that he puts you on?

[tskillz187 0]

I either fold or raise the flop. I usually fold it, but if I'm going to play I'm repping that I have a big A because I raised pf. If I had a big A I'd be raising this flop.

[Royal_Tour 0]

why can't villain have an A (or better) and be charging you for a draw that he puts you on?

puts me on a spade FD?

[David_Nicoson 1]

I suspect Cobalt would raise the flop. I would probably fold on the flop.Do you raise suited connectors preflop in this position? Would the villain know that? I don't feel like the turn bet tells me much. It's a little less than 2/3 pot. I'm not clear on why you think he wants you to fold. 56? J T or similar? AT? 77 or the one combination of 44? Supposing we read him for a draw and try to snap off a river bluff, we have to consider the possibility that he hit an over to our eights and actually has us beat. So that puts in the situation where we might have to raise the river to win the hand.I feel like you're playing the hand by read, but I don't have a read.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I suspect Cobalt would raise the flop. I would probably fold on the flop.Do you raise suited connectors preflop in this position? Would the villain know that? I don't feel like the turn bet tells me much. It's a little less than 2/3 pot. I'm not clear on why you think he wants you to fold. 56? J T or similar? AT? 77 or the one combination of 44? Supposing we read him for a draw and try to snap off a river bluff, we have to consider the possibility that he hit an over to our eights and actually has a beat. So that puts in the situation where we might have to raise the river to win the hand.I feel like your playing the hand by read, but I don't have a read.

I have raised suited connectors from LP, but no one at the table would know that.Its hard to explain, but i'm sure you've encountered it at live games before. The bet sizing is muc more player dependent and same with the situation. He knows i'm a player, and capable of folding when I get a feeling i'm beat. If he put me on a A, and he has A,x beat, his lead out bet makes sense.however, when i only call the flop, does he take it as weakness or strength?and how does he act according to each situation?there is no exact way to play a A,x or better in his spot. But lets say he takes my flop call as weakness, and My lack of interest in this flop means a large enough bet might take it away on the turn. if he has an A,x or better he has some showdown value so he might just keep me around with a smaller bet on the turn like 1/2 pot.If he takes my flop call as strength, is he leading the turn to find out just how strong I am? Would you lead the turn OOP for 2/3 pot if you thought you were up against a monster, or would you c/c and re-examine on the river?The only situation I can see that makes sense for him to play the turn this way is if he puts me on a FD.but thats such a slim range given my pf raise from LP which can be almost anything.what level of thinking is this BTW? I'm thinking of what he has, and what he thinks I have? level 3? u dont realize it at the time cuz so much is going on in such a short time but the more i play the quicker these thoughts run through my mind. Anyone else?

[Acid_Knight 2]

I didn't read responses.I think a fold or raise is best on the flop. Calling is the worst option. We have no idea where he's at and our hand sucks.I think folding is the best idea.

[mtdesmoines 2]

1/2 NL live. Mid day My thought process on the turn was that he wanted me off the hand. FD, or complete air? not 100% sure, but any Ace has showdown value and I couldt understand why he would want to push me out.

Neither one of you have an ace and you both know it. It just boils down to who's pp is higher. This hand is going to showdown for 1/2 pot size bets.Personally, I don't like eights in this spot, but they're middle of the road enough to keep calling.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I fold the Flop. Sure, sitting in the Villain's seat I'd put you on a FD which would make me want to just take it down with my Ax. I'm a little confused - are you putting him on Air?

[Acid_Knight 2]

what level of thinking is this BTW? I'm thinking of what he has, and what he thinks I have? level 3?

Lvl 1: I have _______ Lvl 2: I think he has ____Lvl 3: I think he thinks I have________Lvl 4: I think that he thinks that I think he has ________

[simo_8ball 1]

Lvl 1: I have _______ Lvl 2: I think he has ____Lvl 3: I think he thinks I have________Lvl 4: I think that he thinks that I think he has ________

Hmm. Odd. Just read this now, after making a lengthy post in Tourney strat on this very subject.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Hmm. Odd. Just read this now, after making a lengthy post in Tourney strat on this very subject.

Very odd, esp considering I'm never in tourney strat. I just checked out your post. It's very good. Mine's more concise mainly becuase it uses only 4 lines and 2 dozen words while yours in infinitely longer

[Willing 2 Die 0]

I don't think Villian (since from your description is fairly competent and plays 2/5 NL) that he would limp with Ax but would rather raise PF with it. He could have a draw on the flop.Edit: After you floated the flop (if your initial read was correct that he was just trying to push you out and didnt really have a strong hand), i would raise to 100 on the turn or ditch the hand.

[Sheiky 0]

I fold the flop because i think doing anything else is too expensive/read dependent/tricky imo.If you call here, you rarely get to a showdown for no more bets which is really what we want.If you raise, you're creating a bigger pot with a not-so-good hand, if he's bluffing you win the pot which is the downside with folding but i think the times hes bluffing and you win the pot don't cancel out the times he's got an ace and you lose your investment of a raise.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If you raise, you're creating a bigger pot with a not-so-good hand, if he's bluffing you win the pot which is the downside with folding but i think the times hes bluffing and you win the pot don't cancel out the times he's got an ace and you lose your investment of a raise.

If and when I raise here, it's becuase there really isn't a single hand in my range that I'm ever flat calling. In position as the preflop raiser, I'm raising draws, I'm raising sets, I'm raising 2 pair and big aces and even some representative air type hands, of which 88 basically falls into.I just think calling is bad because1. If he has a draw, we give him a chance to draw out on us for free and his draw probably has at least 40% equity in the pot2. If he has an A, we're calling and drawing to 2 outs3. If he has a set, we're calling and drawing to 2 outs4. There are 2 more betting rounds after this one5. OUR HAND SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to try and limp to showdown with this piece of crap here. If you ever get to showdown, you're probably losing unless he misses a draw. Don't go to showdown. If you're gonna play the hand, raise the flop and take control. If not, just fold. I prefer folding.

[Sheiky 0]

Well yeh so do i, i don't neccesarily think our hand had will be losing if it gets checked through the turn and river though. From the way this hand played out i think we would lose at a showdown, but i don't think our hand is devoid of showdown value.I'm not really sure why i'm saying this though as i agree with what you said.