Sick Spot With Q-high Flush

[rdtedm 0]

Villain has been extremely active at table and raises a large % of hands from all positions. Normally I fold QJss in this spot pf. After the flop I was planning to C/R, but this is the first time he didn't c-bet.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)SB ($107.20)Hero ($97)UTG ($95.65)MP ($271.45)Button ($98.50)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.Flop: ($8.50) , , (2 players)Hero checks, MP checks.Turn: ($8.50) (2 players)Hero bets $6, MP calls $6.River: ($20.50) (2 players)Hero bets $15, MP raises to $51

[Jadaki 1]

He might have hit the flop big enough he didn't want to scare you off with a Cbet. I'm thinking you have to call, my guess is he overplayed a hand not expecting the backdoor flush to have hit you. If he has the higher flush chalk it up as a cooler.

[rdtedm 0]

He might have hit the flop big enough he didn't want to scare you off with a Cbet. I'm thinking you have to call, my guess is he overplayed a hand not expecting the backdoor flush to have hit you. If he has the higher flush chalk it up as a cooler.

If he checks flop to trap later, doesnt he raise turn with a good hand?

[NoBBiR 0]

I'm sort of split between shoving and calling but I think calling is better. I just don't see any hand by AhKh showing up here that we're behind to. Maybe Ah10h, but you're hogging the Queen and Jack so I just don't see a lot of nut flushes here. He could have made a straight with something like 67s but I don't know if he's raising it.Him being active, I don't really know if I wouldn't raise here. Folding is stupid, you're never folding, but raising could be good if he is as active as you say. He might often wake up with a smaller flush here if thats the case. I'm a nit though so I'd just call.

[Snamuh 0]

I'm never shoving here. I think the OP's debate was between a call and a fold. I have to call here though I'm not extremely happy about his raise size. Ahxh shows up a lot I think but smaller flushes and retardedly played sets show up here often enough I think.

[Jadaki 1]

If he checks flop to trap later, doesnt he raise turn with a good hand?

Say he flopped a set.. he might just call thinking he can get another bet out of Hero on the river. He also could have something like 76 here if he is as loose as OP claims and thinks his rivered straight is good.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Shoving seems bad. I'd never fold his hand though.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Villain has been extremely active at table and raises a large % of hands from all positions. Normally I fold QJss in this spot pf. After the flop I was planning to C/R, but this is the first time he didn't c-bet.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)SB ($107.20)Hero ($97)UTG ($95.65)MP ($271.45)Button ($98.50)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.Flop: ($8.50) , , (2 players)Hero checks, MP checks.Turn: ($8.50) (2 players)Hero bets $6, MP calls $6.River: ($20.50) (2 players)Hero bets $15, MP raises to $51

I am more willing to lose my money on a third nut runner runner backdoor flush than I am on a a third nut flush with two of the suit on the flop.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I am more willing to lose my money on a third nut runner runner backdoor flush than I am on a a third nut flush with two of the suit on the flop.

I can't stop laughing at this.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I can't stop laughing at this.

Just sayin our flush is pretty sneaky.Pretty sure we're good here. We missed a bet on the flop, tho.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Just sayin our flush is pretty sneaky.Pretty sure we're good here. We missed a bet on the flop, tho.

We didn't miss a flop bet. We called and were OOP to the preflop raiser. I'm checking here on this board like 90% of the time.

[pdr87 0]

Don't fold. Don't shove. He often has a straight or a set here.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Don't fold. Don't shove. He often has a straight or a set here.

Check the preflop action and explain how he often has a straight. I think he also rarely ever has a set. I think he shows up with AK/AThh a lot here, but I'm still never folding.

[DonkSlayer 1]

I might be looking to c/c this river. LAG's will often not call river bets with weak hands, so I think you have a chance to make more money if you check and then call a river stab from him than if you lead, which I think either gets him to fold or raise you, and you clearly hate this raise. It's a call. You've played this hand as if you hit a Q and might have been trying to c/r, or at least you thought you were ahead when you led the river, so he shows up with a straight or set waaay too often to think about folding this. If you c/c this river, you have a chance to call $25-$40 and feel good about it instead of feeling weird about calling a big raise.

[DonkSlayer 1]

Check the preflop action and explain how he often has a straight. I think he also rarely ever has a set. I think he shows up with AK/AThh a lot here, but I'm still never folding.

Depending on how loose villain is, he could have 67 (which doesn't ALWAYS bet the flop), 33,44, 62 hearts, etc. AK/AhTh is giving him credit for a tighter range than our read, although LAG's get good hands like everyone else.

[AimHigher 0]

Easy call, Look at the pot odds. He probably hit a draw, but there are plenty of draws the 4 hits that we beat. If he hit a straight or smaller flush here, he is going to raise here 100% of the time because there is no way in hell he would put us on a backdoor flush.From his line I am less inclined to think he has a flush and more inclined to think he has a straight. He is raising a lot, and then c-betting a lot. If he had air on the flop, he would probably just fire out a C-bet anyway. The fact he is checking behind suggests it is more likely a to be a draw, and the only draw that really fits is 76. Also given his image there is a small chance he has a weak hand and is trying to represent the flush. We did represent something along the lines of a foldable pair up until this point.Call > Raise > Fold.

[psujohn 0]

I am more willing to lose my money on a third nut runner runner backdoor flush than I am on a a third nut flush with two of the suit on the flop.

Yeah but the flop was checked around. From villain's perspective Hero is just as likely to have the flush here as he is to have the flush when there are two hearts on the flop. Not saying that villain realizes this but you should.And yeah I think this is a pretty easy call.

[fatman 1]

Call the river. I would probably play it pretty much the same except for pre-flop. I would either fold or 3-bet pre-flop.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If you c/c this river, you have a chance to call $25-$40 and feel good about it instead of feeling weird about calling a big raise.

We did backdoor the 3rd nut flush, which is not exactly a marginal holding. Without any additional information when it's our turn to act on the river, check/calling a bet seems just retardedly weak to me.

[mtdesmoines 2]

We didn't miss a flop bet. We called and were OOP to the preflop raiser. I'm checking here on this board like 90% of the time.

Check the preflop action and explain how he often has a straight. I think he also rarely ever has a set. I think he shows up with AK/AThh a lot here, but I'm still never folding.

If villain has an H suited AK/AT, why is betting the flop wrong?

[rdtedm 0]

My thoughts on the hand:I'm OOP vs. the PF aggressor, so I'll almost always check any flop with any cards. Assuming a competent villain, he'll raise my donkbet a large amount of the time, and a big pot will be built for a weakish hand.As for the river, it was a call/fold situation, I'm never shoving that. He'll call with a weaker hand here almost never. His raise on the river really looks like a value raise, not a raise with a missed draw/weak hand.

[NoBBiR 0]

If villain has an H suited AK/AT, why is betting the flop wrong?

He's saying that based on the rest of the action that we've seen to the river, the villain will often show up with one of those two hands.However, leading into the preflop raiser on this flop is stupid for two reasons. We have TP Medium kicker, which will do one of two things: 1) Make him fold those same AK/AT which he was going to c-bet when he's drawing very slim, or 2) induce a raise from hands that beat us (AA KK QQ AQ Sets etc.) and build a pot with a weak hand. We want to give him a chance to c-bet if he's missed, and we don't want to get real aggressive with him if he has a big hand.They don't call it "donking" into the PFR for nothing.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Check the preflop action and explain how he often has a straight. I think he also rarely ever has a set. I think he shows up with AK/AThh a lot here, but I'm still never folding.

My thoughts on the hand:I'm OOP vs. the PF aggressor, so I'll almost always check any flop with any cards. Assuming a competent villain, he'll raise my donkbet a large amount of the time, and a big pot will be built for a weakish hand.As for the river, it was a call/fold situation, I'm never shoving that. He'll call with a weaker hand here almost never. His raise on the river really looks like a value raise, not a raise with a missed draw/weak hand.

He's saying that based on the rest of the action that we've seen to the river, the villain will often show up with one of those two hands.However, leading into the preflop raiser on this flop is stupid for two reason. We have TP Medium kicker, which will do one of two things: 1) Make him fold those same AK/AT which he was going to c-bet when he's drawing very slim, or 2) induce a raise from hands that beat us (AA KK QQ AQ Sets etc.). We want to give him a chance to c-bet if he's missed, and we don't want to get real aggressive with him if he has a big hand.They don't call it "donking" into the PFR for nothing.

"Villain has been extremely active at table and raises a large % of hands from all positions. Normally I fold QJss in this spot pf. After the flop I was planning to C/R, but this is the first time he didn't c-bet."

[rdtedm 0]

"Villain has been extremely active at table and raises a large % of hands from all positions. Normally I fold QJss in this spot pf. After the flop I was planning to C/R, but this is the first time he didn't c-bet."

I was trying to state that C/R'ing is better than leading here. If I bet/get raised, I likely have to fold, whereas if I C/R, I gain value from his missed hands. If he flatcalls a C/R, I can re-evaluate turn. I just don't want to donkbet.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If villain has an H suited AK/AT, why is betting the flop wrong?

Because blindly betting into the preflop raiser with hands that can't stand a raise is pretty bad. It's even worse when the raiser might be a player like me who's gonna raise you like 90% of the time with anything that I raised preflop with, whether or not it's actualyl beating you on the flop.We have no information about his hand at this point and assuming that ti's AK/AJ and betting is pretty weak. It could just as easily be AA/KK/AQ/any set or whatever. I guess if you know that he won't raise you without a real hand, then leading's fine. I just think that leading into people with QJ on this board is a leak.