Playing Pro Poker

[Arin 0]

Lets say that you are a poker player who has recently decided to play professionally. Is the correct strategy to determine a specific amount of money that you have to win each night and set limits for yourself or is the correct strategy to play as long as possible if you are winning even if you end up broke by the end of the night. I'm torn between the two because it seems like if winning at poker means whether or not you are eating for the week then playing for long hours seems a little risky but at the same time setting limits seems a little too strict of an approach. What do you guys think?

[xzanos 0]

Lets say that you are a poker player who has recently decided to play professionally. Is the correct strategy to determine a specific amount of money that you have to win each night and set limits for yourself or is the correct strategy to play as long as possible if you are winning even if you end up broke by the end of the night. I'm torn between the two because it seems like if winning at poker means whether or not you are eating for the week then playing for long hours seems a little risky but at the same time setting limits seems a little too strict of an approach. What do you guys think?

If how you do on Monday determines weather or not you eat on Tuesday, you should not play poker professionally.If you feel you have an edge at a table, play until you don't feel you have an edge. It may be because the fish left, some good players sat down, or because you're tired, but don't limit yourself by leaving a good game early because you're up $X.

[Zach6668 513]

First of all, you cannot be a pro unless you are properly rolled. Well, you can, but you'll fail.You should NEVER be close to being broke, although it does happen. Ideally, and for the purposes of any strategy, it doesn't.You should play with a bankroll where your risk of ruin is so small it's negligible.Now, to the next question, playing to win a certain amount in one day is awful. It will result in you playing more poker when you are losing, possibly tilting, playing poorly, getting more and more tired, etc, and it will cause you to quit when you're playing good, and winning. That's a terrible combination.Secondly, variance is massive in poker. No matter how long you work for the day, it's still entirely possible to have losing days, weeks, months, no matter how good you are, etc.So, some days you win, some days you lose. It's impossible to win every time, and it's impossible to avoid losing sessions. Play to maximize your returns over the long run. Play when you are focused, not tired, not tilting, etc, and quit when you don't feel like playing.

[navybuttons 16]

if you are having questions like this, you are not ready to play professionally. it's tough to swallow, but you asked. if i feel like it later, i might go deeply into it.

[Cappy37 0]

First of all, you cannot be a pro unless you are properly rolled. Well, you can, but you'll fail.You should NEVER be close to being broke, although it does happen. Ideally, and for the purposes of any strategy, it doesn't.You should play with a bankroll where your risk of ruin is so small it's negligible.Now, to the next question, playing to win a certain amount in one day is awful. It will result in you playing more poker when you are losing, possibly tilting, playing poorly, getting more and more tired, etc, and it will cause you to quit when you're playing good, and winning. That's a terrible combination.Secondly, variance is massive in poker. No matter how long you work for the day, it's still entirely possible to have losing days, weeks, months, no matter how good you are, etc.So, some days you win, some days you lose. It's impossible to win every time, and it's impossible to avoid losing sessions. Play to maximize your returns over the long run. Play when you are focused, not tired, not tilting, etc, and quit when you don't feel like playing.

You need to save that to notepad, so you can re-copy it the next time this question is asked. You hit pretty much every basic point with a focus on brevity. Bravo.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

First of all, you cannot be a pro unless you are properly rolled. Well, you can, but you'll fail.You should NEVER be close to being broke, although it does happen. Ideally, and for the purposes of any strategy, it doesn't.You should play with a bankroll where your risk of ruin is so small it's negligible.Now, to the next question, playing to win a certain amount in one day is awful. It will result in you playing more poker when you are losing, possibly tilting, playing poorly, getting more and more tired, etc, and it will cause you to quit when you're playing good, and winning. That's a terrible combination.Secondly, variance is massive in poker. No matter how long you work for the day, it's still entirely possible to have losing days, weeks, months, no matter how good you are, etc.So, some days you win, some days you lose. It's impossible to win every time, and it's impossible to avoid losing sessions. Play to maximize your returns over the long run. Play when you are focused, not tired, not tilting, etc, and quit when you don't feel like playing.

Not a Pro here, but I will add one thing to this.I have heard several Pros say that they do set "Targets". They will cap their session losses at 2 or 3 buy-ins. They will also set a target for winning, but adjust that. For example if they win 2 buy-ins, they may say to themselves, I'll leave if I slip back to $X, If they wind up moving up some more, they'll readjust that amount to $X Plus. This works very well for me because since adopting this mindset, I leave closer to my highest water mark for the session. Prior to that I'd often suffer the fate of having been up in the session only to leave when I got hit and be at a far lower or even negative amount. My average Session winnings have gone dramatically up.

[tj9422- 0]

you should read more, there is a book out by mark blade that my help you on this topic.http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...=111416&hl=the link will tell you more about his book.

[Zach6668 513]

Not a Pro here, but I will add one thing to this.I have heard several Pros say that they do set "Targets". They will cap their session losses at 2 or 3 buy-ins. They will also set a target for winning, but adjust that. For example if they win 2 buy-ins, they may say to themselves, I'll leave if I slip back to $X, If they wind up moving up some more, they'll readjust that amount to $X Plus. This works very well for me because since adopting this mindset, I leave closer to my highest water mark for the session. Prior to that I'd often suffer the fate of having been up in the session only to leave when I got hit and be at a far lower or even negative amount. My average Session winnings have gone dramatically up.

Things like these kinda work, but probably not for the reasons the people think they should.Your average session result is pretty meaningless, to an extent. Like, leaving at your peak isn't really a big deal, since it's all one big session, right? I mean, over the long run, your average session will obviously be solid if you're a winning player, but you really shouldn't shoot for it as a stopping point.The reason a lot of the guys do stuff like this, is simply for the emotional, psycological peace it brings. That's certainly understandable. I mean, we aren't robots, although it would be much easier if we were. People hate to be up in a session, then lose it back. I bitch about that every day, lol. I also probably, unconciously, try to quit when I'm up, rather than down, but that may result in a few leaks of my own.In reality though, if you were to somehow play your A game 100% of the time, when you quit is meaningless. In reality though, we should try to play as much as we can under optimal conditions, and duck out of the sub optimal conditions when we are smart enough to. It's similar to the table selection thread, really. If you can play focused, non-tilted, solid poker, at a good table, you should really play as long as you can sustain these conditions.Since we're not robots though, those stop loss thing work well to keep our tilt under control, etc. Even if do get up 5 buyins and say we quit if we drop a buyin, it probably stops us from playing poorly (conciously or otherwise), because we may try to force ourselves to get that buyin back before we quit, if we didn't have that stop loss limit.This is really something that poker theory isn't built for, and that's the psycology of individual players. We all know about maximizing EV, and everyone as seen me preach that in a cash game we should be basically robots and ignore the swings, etc, and just make the play with the highest EV, but in reality, we are humans, and do have to deal with these swings. These are tools that people have come up with to help cope, but it's probably important to not that in theory, it won't be optimal, but it'll be close, and in practice, it will prevent us from playing sub-optimally.

[Acid_Knight 2]

if you are having questions like this, you are not ready to play professionally.

I was literally going to type the exact same words.

[navybuttons 16]

good post.

it's later and i don't feel like going into it. zach does a good job.yesterday i verbalized something that i felt. say player 1 at his A+ game can beat the game for 1bb/hr and player 2 can beat it for 2bb/hr. Player 1 has a bigger edge in the game if he knows when and how to quit and player 2 doesn't.

[Acid_Knight 2]

say player 1 at his A+ game can beat the game for 1bb/hr and player 2 can beat it for 2bb/hr. Player 1 has a bigger edge in the game if he knows when and how to quit and player 2 doesn't.

This is not true. If player 1 is a proven 1BB/hr winner in the game, that implies long run results and it takes into effect all playing conditions including tilt and knowing when to leave. If player 2 beats it at 2BB/hr, then it must assume the same things and therefore already takes into account that he might play too long or chase his losses, but that overall he wins at 2BB/hr and therefore has a bigger edge in the game, which in this example is twice the edge that player 1 has in the long run.

[simo_8ball 1]

This is not true. If player 1 is a proven 1BB/hr winner in the game, that implies long run results and it takes into effect all playing conditions including tilt and knowing when to leave. If player 2 beats it at 2BB/hr, then it must assume the same things and therefore already takes into account that he might play too long or chase his losses, but that overall he wins at 2BB/hr and therefore has a bigger edge in the game, which in this example is twice the edge that player 1 has in the long run.

He means if their A+ games can win for 1BB and 2BB respectively.Player 2 will play his D- game and lose regularly, but Player 1 will always play B+ at a minimum.

[Acid_Knight 2]

He means if their A+ games can win for 1BB and 2BB respectively.Player 2 will play his D- game and lose regularly, but Player 1 will always play B+ at a minimum.

Right, I guess that's what he meant. It's also kind of meaningless though, becuase the only thing that matters is your overall winrate.

[Acid_Knight 2]

http://www.cardplayer.com/author/article/all/19/5293

[navybuttons 16]

It's also kind of meaningless though, becuase the only thing that matters is your overall winrate.

???that is the meaning. i've played with guys that can read hands way better than i do. when they're on they make great bluffs and value bets. i play with them because they aren't always at their A+ game, and while i don't always have an edge on them, i do in the long run. surely, you know exactly what i'm talking about.the fact that when they're stuck they dont play as well and play long hours, combated with my willingness to leave when i'm not playing well and they are means that my winrate in the game is higher than theirs.there are many multiples in the equation where the answer is winrate, but my point was that knowing when to quit is a more important one than skill.edit: i just now skimmed through the article, but i think it says my point in more words.

[Acid_Knight 2]

edit: i just now skimmed through the article, but i think it says my point in more words.

It does make your point. I'm just saying that I don't care what the varaible are, only the solution to the equation. If A+B+C+D= 1BB/hr from player 1 and the same equation yields 2BB/hr for player 2, then player 2 is a better player. I don't care if the variables A, B and C are all greater for player 1, becuase if D is outweighing those things, then he's not a better player. He may read hands better. He may know the odds more soundly, but the real determination in poker is winrate.I guess that using the term "better player" is more accurate overall while "more knowledgable" is something that doesn't correlate with winrate.

[volcrazy 0]

I agree totally.

[Sick Boy 0]

I agree totally.

I also agree totally, as I have nothing smart to add.

[Sick Boy 0]

I do have a question though..I want to be a pro so badly, it hurts.I'm doing everything i physically and mentally can to accomplish my goal. I'm dedicating the rest of my life to poker. I dont care about the consequences. I dont care how hard it will be, (and I know it will be hard). I don't care what it takes. I dont care if I have to miss meals every tuesday. I'm gonna give it everything I've got and if it turns out that I end up being some 60year-old bum with a gambling addiction that no one's ever heard of or loves, so be it, at least I tried.So I'm wandering, do you guys have any advice on how I should get started? I should probably keep my job and use money I earn to get started right? Does anyone here think I can do it?And please no "I think you should reconsider..." lectures. I've heard enough of those and I dont care what anyone sais. I will be a pro one day with or without anyone's help. This is not a phase that I will get over when I mature a bit. This is the real thing.

[Zach6668 513]

Serious answer:Play part time until you've proven that you're a winning player, AND have significant savings to pay your expenses in the event that you go on a 6 month losing/breakeven streal. Seriously. Also, play within your bankroll.Also, try to be of legal age, not 15.

[Sick Boy 0]

Thank you Zach. I had planned to do that anyway, but advice from a guy like you will always be well accepted and appreciated.I am a winning player, I proved that a long time ago..way before I was supposed to. You tink 15 is to young? Try 11,I dont play again til Im 18.Thanks again

[simo_8ball 1]

Stay in school. Get a good education. Maybe get a degree, whatever. I'm not joking here.Play part time, and build up an understanding of the game. You can play in the evenings after school, or at weekends.When I was your age I played nothing but pool. I was playing dozens of games a day, and I started considering playing professionally (even my screenname here is 8ball). If I hadn't gone to University I might well have gone down that path.If, in a couple of years, you've dropped out and are scratching a living at poker and your passion for the game fades, you'll struggle to get those lost years of experience and learning back, and you'll have a hard time getting employment if you say you've been playing poker for X amount of time (you will probably be labelled a degenerate and put to the bottom of the list).You're young, and you don't have to decide your future now.

[Zach6668 513]

Stay in school. Get a good education. Maybe get a degree, whatever. I'm not joking here.

This is very important as well.I wish I hadn't grown to dislike my studies. That was mostly a function of poker occupying too much of my time.I managed to escape with a BA, but I should have done a lot more, and studied a lot harder, while I was in school.It is important though, to have something to fall back on when (if) poker dries up.

[dscoot 0]

I don't care what it takes. I dont care if I have to miss meals every tuesday.

gotta take care of your body if u wanna play your best

[Sick Boy 0]

I'm definatly finishing school, I promised my mom I would and I really want to make her proud of me, even though she never supports anything I want to do,(even when I told her actuall "proper" careers I wanted to do,). I understand that I have to have something to fall back on but I really just want to play poker. A high school education is enough for me to fall back on if poker doesn't work. Poker will work, I'll make it work I've had this dream before I was even old enough to have dreams about anything cept cookies and tv, even before I realised how big poker actually is. Really, I mean it when I say that. How could it last this long if it was just a stupid idea I made up in my head. Its my calling, sometimes when I play, I feel like electricity comes out of my hands. My hands were made for poker, I know it, I just know it. I cant explain why and I know it sounds crazy and naive to be making statements like this at my age, but I just know it. I'm hungry for it I know I can I do it because I know what the life of a poker pro entails when he starts out and I've been going through these situations my whole life. You guys think I don't know what it's like not to eat any meals for a day?Try three days.How about what its like to live of an apple for a whole day? How about living with no lights or hot water. I'll never miss another meal again in my life. I will never put myself in a position where I'm banking on the turn of a card to eat because I've been to hell and back, and I'm never gonna go there again. I know what I'm getting myself into and I'm ready for it.I'm finishing school, getting a full time job at where I'm working now, and I'm bulding my bankroll. That's just how its gonna be. There wont be a degree because I wouldn't know what to study and also the idea of using it and living yet another average life, (living, starting a family, working my ass off,getting flamed by my boss and dying with nobody knowing my name except my friends and family) is just to painfull to imagine. I dont just want to live and die. I want do something big.And I'm gonna do it. No matter what anyone sais. No matter what anyone thinks. No matter what the odds are or how badly they're stacked against me. I'm doing it...and thats the bottem line