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A Tale Of Two Gms


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#41 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:16 PM

View Postserge, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 11:45 AM, said:

The whole issue with the cap is going to be a problem sooner than later...only 2 years after the CBA Gms are still signing players to irresponsible contracts...are Tomas Vanek and Daniel Briere great players??YesShould they be paid the same or higher than Crosby and Thornton...HELL NO...
I would blame Lowe for the Vanek contract. After losing Briere and Drury they had to match to stay competitive and they had the cap room. If it wasn't for Lowe they would have went to arbitration and he would've been paid a lot lower number.

#42 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:18 PM

View PostFenxis, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 11:03 AM, said:

Except that FAs don't want to go to Montreal...
This may be totally wrong but did Montreal offer Briere the same $$ as Philly but he went with Philly instead?

#43 serge

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:21 PM

View PostWhiter Sr, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:16 PM, said:

I would blame Lowe for the Vanek contract. After losing Briere and Drury they had to match to stay competitive and they had the cap room. If it wasn't for Lowe they would have went to arbitration and he would've been paid a lot lower number.
I know a lot of people blame Lowe, but he had to do what he did for Penner and Vanek...He lost out on Smyth and couldnt get the other big name free agents to come...But I know a lot of gms blame Lowe , however what he did was in the rules set out in the CBA.
I am a huge Leafs fan, I am not going to apologize for my love of the greatest team on earth.
GO LEAFS GO

#44 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:29 PM

View Postserge, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:21 PM, said:

I know a lot of people blame Lowe, but he had to do what he did for Penner and Vanek...He lost out on Smyth and couldnt get the other big name free agents to come...But I know a lot of gms blame Lowe , however what he did was in the rules set out in the CBA.
I realize it was within the rules. I am just saying you can't blame Regier for overpaying for Vanek. He is not worth the $$ but he had the room to do it and he really couldn't afford not to.

#45 MapleLeafpoker

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:32 PM

View PostWhiter Sr, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 5:16 PM, said:

I would blame Lowe for the Vanek contract. After losing Briere and Drury they had to match to stay competitive and they had the cap room. If it wasn't for Lowe they would have went to arbitration and he would've been paid a lot lower number.
You know who I blame for McCabe's contract? Not Ferguson, but instead Peter Chiareli and Michael Barnett. (Chara+Jovanovski)You know who I blame for Gomez? Paul Holmgren. (Briere)If your gonna blame Lowe for a contract Buffalo was willing to sign, then I guess you gotta do the same with all past contracts.Its easy to blame Kevin Lowe, but if it was such a bad contract and overpayment, than Buffalo should not have matched. If its worth it for Buffalo to pay that much just to keep a player, imagine how much better it would have been for Edmonton to ACQUIRE a player so talented at that pay scale.I am sick and tired of Lowe getting bashed for Vanek+Penner. I love active GM's who do WHATEVER they can to improve their team.

#46 serge

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:37 PM

I think that if no one offers contracts to RFA , whats the point of being a RFA...I really hope there are tons of offers next year as it makes things a lot more exciting...
I am a huge Leafs fan, I am not going to apologize for my love of the greatest team on earth.
GO LEAFS GO

#47 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:39 PM

View PostMapleLeafpoker, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:32 PM, said:

You know who I blame for McCabe's contract? Not Ferguson, but instead Peter Chiareli and Michael Barnett. (Chara+Jovanovski)You know who I blame for Gomez? Paul Holmgren. (Briere)If your gonna blame Lowe for a contract Buffalo was willing to sign, then I guess you gotta do the same with all past contracts.Its easy to blame Kevin Lowe, but if it was such a bad contract and overpayment, than Buffalo should not have matched. If its worth it for Buffalo to pay that much just to keep a player, imagine how much better it would have been for Edmonton to ACQUIRE a player so talented at that pay scale.I am sick and tired of Lowe getting bashed for Vanek+Penner. I love active GM's who do WHATEVER they can to improve their team.
Let me explain myself. I am not a Lowe hater. He did what he had to do. My point is, it was worth it for Regier to overpay say $2 Mil per year rather than lose 3 of their top 4 offensive weapons in 1 off season. If Lowe hadn't done the sheet the Sabres would have gotten Vanek for a lot cheaper.I am a Buffalo Fan and by no means do I hold a grudge towards Lowe. Like you said what he did was legal. But it did lead to Vanek being overpaid.

#48 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:41 PM

View Postserge, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:37 PM, said:

I think that if no one offers contracts to RFA , whats the point of being a RFA...I really hope there are tons of offers next year as it makes things a lot more exciting...
I agree.I'd like to see some of the offers being realeased and drafts picks get exchanged. Very rarely I would think it is worth it to sign a player for 5 1st round picks. There are not that many players that good in the League.

#49 serge

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:43 PM

most players I dont think fall in the 5 1st round picks category..not sure the exact break down , but to get a player like Wellwood or Steen...It wouldnt cost that much...
I am a huge Leafs fan, I am not going to apologize for my love of the greatest team on earth.
GO LEAFS GO

#50 MapleLeafpoker

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:46 PM

View PostWhiter Sr, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 5:39 PM, said:

Let me explain myself. I am not a Lowe hater. He did what he had to do. My point is, it was worth it for Regier to overpay say $2 Mil per year rather than lose 3 of their top 4 offensive weapons in 1 off season. If Lowe hadn't done the sheet the Sabres would have gotten Vanek for a lot cheaper.I am a Buffalo Fan and by no means do I hold a grudge towards Lowe. Like you said what he did was legal. But it did lead to Vanek being overpaid.
Ok, fair enough. But I'm saying this is an easy one to "lay blame" on Lowe because there was an actual offer sheet involved. Many times, teams have to pay players a number based on a comparable player getting a similar contract from a different team. So when the Leafs overpay McCabe, its hard to figure out if thats a bad signing, or a necessary one just like Vanek. If McCabe was a bad signing because he was overpaid, then Vanek is also a bad signing if he is overpaid in that philosophy.The truth is, any RFA or UFA has to be overpaid. There should be no such thing as getting a FA at a decent value. If I try to trade for a Vanek, I have to give up a ridiculous amount of assets.If I can get Vanek, not give up any assets, but overpay him by 2million? I would do it in a second fora young player I thought would help my franchise for years.Truth is, the RFA's have not been signed because of an old boys network in the NHL. I think the Gm's were foolish to not use such an incredibly valuable tool.

#51 digitalmonkey

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 02:52 PM

View PostWhiter Sr, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 5:41 PM, said:

I agree.I'd like to see some of the offers being realeased and drafts picks get exchanged. Very rarely I would think it is worth it to sign a player for 5 1st round picks. There are not that many players that good in the League.
Isn't 3 #1 picks the max now?
Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

#52 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 03:00 PM

View Postdigitalmonkey, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:52 PM, said:

Isn't 3 #1 picks the max now?
Could be. I thought it was 5 for Stevens back in the day so I figured it never changed.

#53 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 03:06 PM

View Postdigitalmonkey, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:52 PM, said:

Isn't 3 #1 picks the max now?
I was close.Now 4 picks see below.Up to $726,000 - No compensation$726,000 to $1,1 million - One 3rd round draft pick$1,1 to $2,2 million - One second round pick$2,2 to $3,3 million - One 1st and one 3rd round pick$3,3 to $4,4 million - One 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd round pick$4,4 to $5,5 million - Two 1sts, one 2nd and one 3rd round pick Over $5,5 million - Four 1st round pickshttp://www.nhlpa.com/CBA/index.asp

#54 digitalmonkey

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 03:08 PM

View PostWhiter Sr, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 6:00 PM, said:

Could be. I thought it was 5 for Stevens back in the day so I figured it never changed.
Who got 5 picks for signing Stevens? Scott Stevens was awarded to the Devils for the Blues' signing Shanahan.
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#55 Whiter Sr

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 03:17 PM

View Postdigitalmonkey, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 3:08 PM, said:

Who got 5 picks for signing Stevens? Scott Stevens was awarded to the Devils for the Blues' signing Shanahan.
You had me thinking I was wrong for a sec. It was awhile ago. See link.http://en.wikipedia....ed_offer_sheets

#56 MapleLeafpoker

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 03:23 PM

View Postdigitalmonkey, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 6:08 PM, said:

Who got 5 picks for signing Stevens? Scott Stevens was awarded to the Devils for the Blues' signing Shanahan.
Washington did.St.Louis got screwed when they lost him for Shanahan, just after giving up 5picks for him.I wish I could remember what St.Louis offered for compensation of Shanahan signing....cant recall. Nj asked for Stevens, they won.Worked out ok for St.louis, they got Pronger for Shanny later, so not all bad. :club:

#57 gruven

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 04:47 PM

View PostWhiter Sr, on Tuesday, November 13th, 2007, 2:18 PM, said:

This may be totally wrong but did Montreal offer Briere the same $$ as Philly but he went with Philly instead?
Briere went to Philly because he's very tight with Martin Biron, and Biron called Briere personally, and made the case why he should come to Philly.... Briere believed what Biron told him. Both players have admitted that this was the case...
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#58 digitalmonkey

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Posted 13 November 2007 - 05:10 PM

Brett Hull named co-GM of the Stars.http://stars.nhl.com...rticleid=343193
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