Playing Outside Your Roll

[therescav 0]

What is everyone's thoughts on ocassionally playing outside your limits? Sometimes when I'm feeling 'over' poker, even a break doesn't change my attitude, I can get back into it by playing a bit higher than usual?For example, I am typically a micro stakes player. Today I sat down at some 0.25/0.50 just for an hour or so....ridiculously bad bankroll management, but it gave me some new found passion in poker, I felt adrenaline, I was pumped, every hand mattered...Does anyone here ocassionally play outside their bankroll? I don't mean the people who continuously do this and lose their entire roll, just someone who does it once every month or so... is it +EV if you feel it helps you be more interested in poker and makes you feel like you are playing better?

[BudBundy 0]

Never.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I've had similar problems in the past, i hate poker and want to play higher limits, something that stings a little, makes it more exciting.but since i've started to play as my only income, now i play cash games for long periods of time and try to win billions.my new thrill is raking pots in a casino and sitting with 5 buy-ins while donks sit at the table and hand me there chips.

[fatman 1]

I think it is good to take the occasional shot. Especially if the games are good and you have an edge over them.

[Zach6668 513]

I have a serious problem with this, I think.I feel like I've been playing long enough, and making enough money to be playing higher than I am, but I'm consantly withdrawing to pay my bills, get myself out of debt, etc.I've been pushing myself to completely get out of debt, so I can grow my bankroll a lot quicker than when I've got more bills to pay, obviously. But I've been pushing myself to that.Every once in a while though, I still do take that shot at the limits I know I can play, when the tables look especially soft, and so on, but I'll only play a limited number of hands, or hit and run for a 10 BB, 15 BBs or something like that.Similarly, if I happened to go through a bad month, where I'm forced to move back down, I find myself making some deals to get some short term loans, small stakes, etc, to keep myself from moving down beneath 3/6.My ideal, at this point, is to play 5/10+ (limit), but 3/6 is enough to keep me 'entertained'. I find it hard to take 1/2 and 2/4 seriously, and beyond that, I don't make enough money at it to pay the bills I have.Another thing, is when I try to move over into the NL game, which usually happens when I struggle with LHE, I tend to start off around .5/1, which to me, is just too small to get the juices flowing, if you know what I mean. Especially for a game that bores me in the first place. I think if I could grow the roll to the point where I could play 2/4 and 1/2 NL without any worry of the money, then I'd be a lot more likely to stick with NL.Long post, but basically, yes, I see your point.

[David_Nicoson 1]

If you have a day job, then your bankroll can effectively be bigger than the amount you have on hand. Are you OK with losing all your poker money and starting over? If so, then you're not taking a terrible risk.Do you beat your normal stakes? I think it's good to demonstrate that you can beat a particular level before moving up just to keep your hobby from getting expensive. If you are, however, really willing to kiss your $50 good-bye in exchange for the excitement then I don't find fault with that. Just be honest with yourself about what you're doing and keep it within your budget if not your bankroll.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Zach, I really encourage you to move up. I know you're just hanging out and treading water until you work out a career. But take your shot. You may never have this opportunity again.Instead of NLHE, have you tried 6-max PLO? I think that ought to qualify for enough action, and your opponent are making far, far worse mistakes in that game. Nut-sit 0.10/0.25 for awhile until you feel you have the mechanics down and move to a bigger short-handed game.

[Mr. Sparco 2]

What I have been doing lately is that I have a "bread-and-butter roll" and a "shots roll". I never use my bread-and-butter roll to play anything except the games I can beat, but I charge my shots roll with a little money every month and allow myself to do with that whatever I like. I have used that to play tournaments that were way outside of my normal bankroll, or games that are completely new to me. I'm not much of a cash game player, but if I were, I could also imagine using it to play one or two levels above my normal buyin.Disadvantages of this approach are that you need to set aside some money that you are willing to lose each month (I play micro limits, so for me that's not much of a problem, but I can imagine it is when you're playing for a living) and that when you lose your shots roll in the first week of the month, you still have to be disciplined enough to play strictly within your bankroll for the next three weeks.Anyway, I have only tried this for two months now, but so far it's working pretty well for me, and the occasional shots keep the game interesting in a relatively cheap way.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Define "Roll".At first, for me my "Roll" was how much was I comfortable to lose. So I had to make a decision about my comfort level. I probably did the dumbest thing imaginable, I jumped straight from home game Tourneys to Casino Cash Games - so I started right into $1/$2/ NL. This, by the way, helps explain just why Live Cash games are so juicy. I managed to start out on a string of winning sessions and have been a winning player since. Now my "Roll" is my profit and I still play at the $1/$2 NL game. I've never moved up. I consider myself a slightly better than average palyer at these levels and I don't need my Poker playing to pay any bills. My real income could support a move up at any time - I just don't see the point in doing so.

[daniel mahan 0]

Define "Roll".At first, for me my "Roll" was how much was I comfortable to lose. So I had to make a decision about my comfort level. I probably did the dumbest thing imaginable, I jumped straight from home game Tourneys to Casino Cash Games - so I started right into $1/$2/ NL. This, by the way, helps explain just why Live Cash games are so juicy. I managed to start out on a string of winning sessions and have been a winning player since. Now my "Roll" is my profit and I still play at the $1/$2 NL game. I've never moved up. I consider myself a slightly better than average palyer at these levels and I don't need my Poker playing to pay any bills. My real income could support a move up at any time - I just don't see the point in doing so.

i think this was fairly well put. I think if you are wanting poker to be ur job an occasional stab is a must almost. But if you are doing well and its for enjoyment.... why change anything if you dont need to.

[steve7stud 0]

I have a serious problem with this, I think.I feel like I've been playing long enough, and making enough money to be playing higher than I am, but I'm consantly withdrawing to pay my bills, get myself out of debt, etc.I've been pushing myself to completely get out of debt, so I can grow my bankroll a lot quicker than when I've got more bills to pay, obviously. But I've been pushing myself to that.Every once in a while though, I still do take that shot at the limits I know I can play, when the tables look especially soft, and so on, but I'll only play a limited number of hands, or hit and run for a 10 BB, 15 BBs or something like that.Similarly, if I happened to go through a bad month, where I'm forced to move back down, I find myself making some deals to get some short term loans, small stakes, etc, to keep myself from moving down beneath 3/6.My ideal, at this point, is to play 5/10+ (limit), but 3/6 is enough to keep me 'entertained'. I find it hard to take 1/2 and 2/4 seriously, and beyond that, I don't make enough money at it to pay the bills I have.Another thing, is when I try to move over into the NL game, which usually happens when I struggle with LHE, I tend to start off around .5/1, which to me, is just too small to get the juices flowing, if you know what I mean. Especially for a game that bores me in the first place. I think if I could grow the roll to the point where I could play 2/4 and 1/2 NL without any worry of the money, then I'd be a lot more likely to stick with NL.Long post, but basically, yes, I see your point.

I say this quite often, but only 5% of people who play poker are winning players. While it appears that you are indeed a winning player, I "think" you still rely on rakeback etc, for a large part of that income. We need to take a closer look at your competition. If other people are on a site for similar reasons. And btw, if you're still playing on AP.............hmmm. But I will save that for another day.The bottom line is, I have seen so many people on this forum float around at the same limit year after year. In truth there is nothing wrong with that, IF they are killing the game and making a ton of money in the process. Sadly, most people are just getting by. The idea is to thrive, not survive. Crazy as it sounds, other sites have games besides hold em. And a lot of people who play on those sites are really bad. That can prove to be an excellent source of income. One must think outside of the box a bit if they are continuing to play online. Games are not got softer.......All too often people want to multi table low limits, get rake back and sort of coast. They eventyually get into bad habits, and don't really progress as players. Ugh, I feel like I'm spinning my wheels with these topics. I'll stop now.For the record. I like you a lot Zach, and I want to see you succeed. I just question the path you are choosing.

[David_Nicoson 1]

i think this was fairly well put. I think if you are wanting poker to be ur job an occasional stab is a must almost. But if you are doing well and its for enjoyment.... why change anything if you dont need to.

I infer from the word stab a certain randomness that I think is dangerous. Unless the pro is very, very well rolled, he shouldn't jump into a game unless he thinks he's going to win. I could be reading to much into that word.

[Roberts2003 0]

i think it really just depends on how serious you want poker to be for you. if its a hobby and no more, then theres nothing wrong with this as long as you are okay with losing all of it. however if you are treating poker seriously, i just dont agree with playing outside of your bankroll. bankroll management will always be the most important thing to building a roll online, and is why so many decent players progress and why so many talented players fail. I see it first hand with some of my friends who are excellent live, but dont have the patience to build online and sit with all of it in 1 sitting. If you are bored, I think the smartest thing to do is small buy in tournaments with the chance of big payouts if you go deep. You still can get a rush if you get deep, but you arnt investing much to do so.

[daniel mahan 0]

I infer from the word stab a certain randomness that I think is dangerous. Unless the pro is very, very well rolled, he shouldn't jump into a game unless he thinks he's going to win. I could be reading to much into that word.

ya by this i meant if you think you can succeed at a higher level even though it questionable.... take a chance. You are never gonna get any better unless youplay vs ppl who are better really. You can only watch and learn so much. You have to put urself in a situation to get expirience. I see ABSOLUTELY no reason to play in anythign where you dont think you have a chance at winning. So that is far from what i meant!

[akoff 0]

To me a bankroll is for pro, semi pro or guys with a plan…I fit into none of those categories. If you have the means to replenish there is no roll. I pick the game that I have enough cash in your pocket to play that night. I personally swing from ½ to 5/10 NLHM and 5/10 to 40/80 limit…just depends how much cash I have on me that night.My bigger question is why K/J off looks sooooo much better on a web site then does sitting at the local poker room? It is amazing to me how stupid I can be online!! In the last 3 years I have lost approx. 30k on line, won approx. 25k in live games for net result of -5k. It just amazes me that I have the ability to play good borderline very good TAG or LAG live and suck so bad online that when I check my hand history I wonder how I could be that bad!! Now a big part is the fact that the stakes I am playing don’t effect my finances…but they don’t effect them in live play either.Does anyone else have this issue??That being said I will be wiring Stars another dime for this weekend…wife is out of town and will need something to do when the kids go to bed!!

[nutzbuster 7]

Pretty sure Steve meant to say that only 5% of players are winning players, so keep that in mind. It is a very sobering stat.And as far as taking shots is concerned, that's fine from time to time, BUT....only if you have been running well and have something extra to lose so to speak. I would NEVER take a shot if I was running BAD, or bored and wanted "some sting" for excitiment. This is a recipe for failure imo.Regarding the only pros and semi pros need a roll, I see your point but sort of disagree. I obv. work full time, but I have always tried to set aside a seperate amount and call that my poker roll. I try very hard to make sure that mentally I am aware that the money in that roll is the ONLY money I have to play poker with, and if I screw that up I am BUSTO!Now obv. this is not the truth, but I always try to pretend it is. I think this is a +EV drill and helps me resist the attitude to play like a complete maniac whilst thinking the whole time that "I can just hit the ATM!". I'm not saying that anyone here does this, and I am exaggerating a bit, but I could see where some folks might just get this attitude and end up screwing themselves over is a very big way.I say take a shot every now and then, but only if you are up....ALWAYS employ proper bankroll management and make sure you have the proper roll for your buy ins.....and always set aside an official poker roll, even if you make 100K a year.GL OP.

[steve7stud 0]

Pretty sure Steve meant to say that only 5% of players are winning players, so keep that in mind. It is a very sobering stat.And as far as taking shots is concerned, that's fine from time to time, BUT....only if you have been running well and have something extra to lose so to speak. I would NEVER take a shot if I was running BAD, or bored and wanted "some sting" for excitiment. This is a recipe for failure imo.Regarding the only pros and semi pros need a roll, I see your point but sort of disagree. I obv. work full time, but I have always tried to set aside a seperate amount and call that my poker roll. I try very hard to make sure that mentally I am aware that the money in that roll is the ONLY money I have to play poker with, and if I screw that up I am BUSTO!Now obv. this is not the truth, but I always try to pretend it is. I think this is a +EV drill and helps me resist the attitude to play like a complete maniac whilst thinking the whole time that "I can just hit the ATM!". I'm not saying that anyone here does this, and I am exaggerating a bit, but I could see where some folks might just get this attitude and end up screwing themselves over is a very big way.I say take a shot every now and then, but only if you are up....ALWAYS employ proper bankroll management and make sure you have the proper roll for your buy ins.....and always set aside an official poker roll, even if you make 100K a year.GL OP.

Yes, that's what I meant to say. Remind me not to respond to threads at 4-6am, lol.

[acesup85 0]

What is everyone's thoughts on ocassionally playing outside your limits? Sometimes when I'm feeling 'over' poker, even a break doesn't change my attitude, I can get back into it by playing a bit higher than usual?For example, I am typically a micro stakes player. Today I sat down at some 0.25/0.50 just for an hour or so....ridiculously bad bankroll management, but it gave me some new found passion in poker, I felt adrenaline, I was pumped, every hand mattered...Does anyone here ocassionally play outside their bankroll? I don't mean the people who continuously do this and lose their entire roll, just someone who does it once every month or so... is it +EV if you feel it helps you be more interested in poker and makes you feel like you are playing better?

I think that is called a gambling addiction my friend, but go for it anyways it's not like ur losing hundreds of dollars.

[Balloon guy 158]

So taking a shot is good if you do it for fun, but bad if you do it to get even or because you're bored?Sounds right.

[mase_gotsem 0]

i take shots all the time but then again im not trying to grind for a living .. ill have weeks where im making profit in a 50 cent 1 dollar game then ill go take a shot at say 10-20 limit and try to see how far i can run it . i wouldnt suggest such an extream jump if your trying to grind for bills and have a bankroll that once its gone you cant just re depo . iv taken shots as high as 50-100 limit and 10 20 nl both were very fun and definetly gave me a rush

[king1305 0]

A little over a year ago, I took a shot outside of my roll. I took my $500 roll and went to 5/10 NL. I was on a heater and felt as though I was playing well also.Well, in three days I had it up to $4,000. At this point I could have been done, but the adrenaline was awesome, and I was young and stupid, so I say, fuck it and took a shot at 25/50 NL, at a table which I thought was very soft. I sat with $3,500, all of the profit I had accrued at 5/10, and went with it, knowing that if I went bust, I would be able to go back to what I had been playing before I took my shot. I went up a little bit, then I lost a big pot and I was left with $1,700 in front of me. I was extremely disheartened and realized that I was losing a lot of money. I gave myself one more orbit and decided that I would be done after it. I ended up picking up KK and doubling through 88 and left + a couple hundred.At this point, I realized that I was being an absolute degenerate. So I decided that I was going to cash out the $3,500 and leave on the $500. I was stupid though and kept thinking I could play 5/10 underrolled. I was wrong. I lost the $500 and was back to being busto online. I have been going back and forth trying to grind it out lately and I feel that I might be headed in the right direction now, but it has taken me over a year to get out of the home run mentality. So, my recommendation is to only take a shot as long as your ego will not get in the way if you do well and the losses won't affect you if you do poorly.

[knoxxxy 0]

Personally i took shots all the time, and have learned quite abit from it.I only started with a $200 bankroll and was willing to lose it, i knew if i lost it i wouldnt be too bothered. I had the same attitude of just playing outside my roll 'every now and again'I played some $20-$30 sngs, and afew $50 25/50 NL cash games.I figured, why not? If i lose it, i have alot of other things in my life and still plenty of money. But if i win i could build up a really good bankroll and make some quick money, which i believed i had a very good chance of doing.I doubled my $200 from this, however, then when i started losing again, i found it way too tempting to just 'take another shot', they were so much fun and i found i was playing really well in them.I sufferred afew bad beats and coolers and lost all my profit and am now back to even.Do i regret taking shots? No, it was some of the funnest poker online ive played, and im still even.But what i did learn is that you will NOT make money from taking shots if you keep on taking them. If you are discplined enough to take a shot and then just go back to grinding it out, go for it...why not.But if you plan to keep on taking shots, even if its every month, one of these months even if you're playing your best poker at these tables, you will inevitably get a bad run...and busto!So, if you dont mind losing what you have......go for it, but dont keep doing it! If you take a shot and win, go back to playing normally........

[king1305 0]

Oh and take a shot for the right reasons too. Make sure you are playing well and are prepared to lose. Do NOT EVER 'TAKE A SHOT' TO CHASE LOSSES. Ever. It will result in more losses.

[uncooper 1]

Playing 2-7 triple draw outside of your roll is always +EV.

[sennin 0]

The only time I ever took a shot was when I was just building up my BR, had $50 or so(after grinding it up from $10 in micro donkaments) and decided to play in the $3R, ended up cashing so it worked out. But ever since I got my roll over $200 I havent played outside of it.