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#21 Naismith

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:08 PM

View Post20TN40, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 8:05 PM, said:

Thank you, Naismith. I never ever ever ever ever win a hand with A's. They always get cracked by three of something. So I'm not sure if I should really shove PF with A's or just call. I've been bit an even amount both ways. Soooooooo, best play is always shove with AA PF?
Well, shoving is great and you want a caller. If you decide to slowplay, you can't ask for a better flop than this.EDIT: I read once that the best flop for AA is 222 because you're likely going to stack all pocket pairs since no one can fold a full house. That's pretty much what you've got going on here. Were I a limper in this hand with A-high, I'd bet this flop relatively certain I was ahead with the way it played preflop.
Peace,
Jay



#22 psujohn

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:10 PM

View Post20TN40, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:05 PM, said:

So I'm not sure if I should really shove PF with A's or just call.
There are a lot of potential bet sizes in between a call and all-in.Pick one of those.Even if you pick at random it's likely to be better than the two choices you seem to think you have.

#23 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:14 PM

View PostZach6668, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:08 PM, said:

:club:
Yes, Zach, it gave me a headache too! And just to keep you from really going over the edge, what are my choices of converters?



#24 Zach6668

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:16 PM

Read the Forum Posting Guidelines like I told you.I spent time writing them up so I wouldn't have to explain it every time.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#25 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:16 PM

View Postpsujohn, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:10 PM, said:

There are a lot of potential bet sizes in between a call and all-in.Pick one of those.Even if you pick at random it's likely to be better than the two choices you seem to think you have.
Okay, so you're angry over the PSU game..........I understand. Tell me how YOU would play the hand.



#26 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:19 PM

View PostNaismith, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:08 PM, said:

Well, shoving is great and you want a caller. If you decide to slowplay, you can't ask for a better flop than this.EDIT: I read once that the best flop for AA is 222 because you're likely going to stack all pocket pairs since no one can fold a full house. That's pretty much what you've got going on here. Were I a limper in this hand with A-high, I'd bet this flop relatively certain I was ahead with the way it played preflop.
So tell me how you would have played this hand.........



#27 Naismith

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:20 PM

View Post20TN40, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 8:16 PM, said:

Okay, so you're angry over the PSU game..........I understand. Tell me how YOU would play the hand.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I would:Raise to 1100 preflop with the intention of shoving any flop > shoving preflop (picking up over 20 percent of your stack is great, but I think you need to double up here) > calling with the intention of getting it all in on any flop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folding preflop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>xINFINITY calling preflop and check-foldingEDIT: If I limp with AA here, I'm going broke with it on any flop. That said, you got the best flop for your hand you could possibly hope for. Folding this flop is like folding AA on an AKK flop because the other guy likely has KK.
Peace,
Jay



#28 Zach6668

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:22 PM

wtf is with the attitude, op?
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#29 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:26 PM

View PostNaismith, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:20 PM, said:

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I would:Raise to 1100 preflop with the intention of shoving any flop > shoving preflop (picking up over 20 percent of your stack is great, but I think you need to double up here) > calling with the intention of getting it all in on any flop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folding preflop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>xINFINITY calling preflop and check-foldingEDIT: If I limp with AA here, I'm going broke with it on any flop. That said, you got the best flop for your hand you could possibly hope for. Folding this flop is like folding AA on an AKK flop because the other guy likely has KK.
Okay, bet at least 3BB preflop with A's. Not knowing what the other guy had and assuming he called my bet, what would you do after the flop?



#30 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:29 PM

View PostZach6668, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:22 PM, said:

wtf is with the attitude, op?
Honestly Zach, it's not an attitude. I've seen a brazillion posts just like mine (without a converter) and Cappy had suggested that I post some of my HH's here to get some input. I believe that the first responses thought it was a joke but it truly wasn't. I'm trying to ask a serious question and get serious responses...........and I did expect a few flames. But ha ha, really funny.......now help me learn from my mistake.



#31 Zach6668

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:29 PM

DO YOU KNOW THAT YOU HAVE THE SECOND NUTS AND ONLY ONE CARD IN THE ENTIRE DECK BEATS YOU?
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#32 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:34 PM

Do you know that screaming at me doesn't help at all.Yes, I know only one card could beat me. His bet was substantial. Did he have the one last 9? Did he have KK? How would you have played the hand?



#33 Naismith

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:35 PM

View Post20TN40, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 8:26 PM, said:

Okay, bet at least 3BB preflop with A's. Not knowing what the other guy had and assuming he called my bet, what would you do after the flop?
Well, as I said above, if I'm the short stack and I pick up AA, I'm raising preflop and shoving any flop without even looking at the cards that come out. If I get sucked out on, it wasn't my tournament to win. You need to get some chips, though, if you plan on winning this tournament. Raise, stick it. If you don't have the stomach to raise and stick any flop and think you might check-fold for some reason, just shove preflop and hope you get called.For this specific hand, you're literally never, ever behind. If you decide to limp, you're doing it for deception. Mission accomplished. The limper is betting here, likely drawing pretty close to dead. The only hands that can catch up to you are overpairs to the 9, which he almost never shows up with and underpairs that go runner-runner quad. Just think about that. Here are the hands your opponent likely (or in some cases, unlikely) limped with that are drawing nearly dead to your hand:22, 33, 44, 55, 66, 77, 88, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, A2-A8, AT-AK, K2-K8, KT-KQ, QT-QJ, JT, etc.Here are the hands you're in trouble against:Anything with the case 9 (89, 9T, J9, A9)
Peace,
Jay



#34 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:39 PM

Thank you very much! That is exactly the information I was looking for.............thanks, Naismith!



#35 Zach6668

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:47 PM

View Post20TN40, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:29 PM, said:

Honestly Zach, it's not an attitude. I've seen a brazillion posts just like mine (without a converter) and Cappy had suggested that I post some of my HH's here to get some input. I believe that the first responses thought it was a joke but it truly wasn't. I'm trying to ask a serious question and get serious responses...........and I did expect a few flames. But ha ha, really funny.......now help me learn from my mistake.
I haven't flamed you.You haven't seen a billion hands without them being converted in the strategy forum. I can promise you of that. That's another discussion.I'm asking you serious questions, since you seem to have several fundament flaws in your game.First question is do you know that you have the 2nd nuts?Next question is, do you know how unlikely it is that someone has the 9?Next question is, do you really think he'd only shove here with 9x? Any pocket pair has to think they have the best hand because of how preflop went down, and obviously random bluffs, and even AT, AK type hands could think they're ahead, and want to price out 6 outers.Next question is, why did you limp preflop? What were you trying to accomplish? How was this result different from what you were trying to accomplish?==========================My analysis.Every single decision you made in this pot was wrong, and for completely wrong reasons.Preflop, you should raise for VALUE.Flop is a retardedly easy call. If he has the case 9, good for him. You have the 2nd nuts.There's literally nothing else to this hand.You have AA, shortish in a tournament. Your goal is to get all of your money in the pot preflop, or on the flop, no matter what 3 cards fall. Period.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#36 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 07:55 PM

View PostZach6668, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 11:47 PM, said:

I haven't flamed you.You haven't seen a billion hands without them being converted in the strategy forum. I can promise you of that. That's another discussion.I'm asking you serious questions, since you seem to have several fundament flaws in your game.First question is do you know that you have the 2nd nuts? YESNext question is, do you know how unlikely it is that someone has the 9? THAT WAS ONE OF MY QUESTIONSNext question is, do you really think he'd only shove here with 9x? NO Any pocket pair has to think they have the best hand because of how preflop went down, and obviously random bluffs, and even AT, AK type hands could think they're ahead, and want to price out 6 outers.Next question is, why did you limp preflop? TO GET CALLERS What were you trying to accomplish? How was this result different from what you were trying to accomplish?==========================My analysis.Every single decision you made in this pot was wrong, and for completely wrong reasons.Preflop, you should raise for VALUE.Flop is a retardedly easy call. If he has the case 9, good for him. You have the 2nd nuts.There's literally nothing else to this hand.You have AA, shortish in a tournament. Your goal is to get all of your money in the pot preflop, or on the flop, no matter what 3 cards fall. Period.
I didn't say YOU flamed me, I said I expected a few flames (for folding the AA). Thanks. And that's all I was asking. I know I have HUGE leaks in my game...........HUGE! That's why I came here, to find out HOW to play the hand. I'm sure it is basic to most everyone, but I almost always lose with AA. This example is probably why but I wasn't sure what TO do. And I now have a subscription to flopturnriver.



#37 Naismith

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 08:04 PM

View Post20TN40, on Saturday, October 27th, 2007, 8:55 PM, said:

I didn't say YOU flamed me, I said I expected a few flames (for folding the AA). Thanks. And that's all I was asking. I know I have HUGE leaks in my game...........HUGE! That's why I came here, to find out HOW to play the hand. I'm sure it is basic to most everyone, but I almost always lose with AA. This example is probably why but I wasn't sure what TO do. And I now have a subscription to flopturnriver.
I showed this hand to my brother. He's not much of a player. He said he'd fold to. I asked why."I always lose with AA." :)You need to lose that mindset. You win with AA a lot more than you lose with it. You just remember losing with it more than you remember winning. I'll tell you one other thing. You're going to lose with it a lot more often if you don't raise preflop. Oh, and 999 is pretty much a dream flop for AA. :club:
Peace,
Jay



#38 Zach6668

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 08:05 PM

Honestly, a monkey could win with AA in the long run. It's just that strong.Randomly hitting the mouse would be a long term winning play with AA.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#39 20TN40

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 08:14 PM

View PostNaismith, on Sunday, October 28th, 2007, 12:04 AM, said:

I showed this hand to my brother. He's not much of a player. He said he'd fold to. I asked why."I always lose with AA." :club: You need to lose that mindset. You win with AA a lot more than you lose with it. You just remember losing with it more than you remember winning. I'll tell you one other thing. You're going to lose with it a lot more often if you don't raise preflop. Oh, and 999 is pretty much a dream flop for AA. :D
Yes, the mindset sux. I just gotta let it go.



#40 Acid_Knight

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Posted 27 October 2007 - 08:15 PM

You limp in EP with AA preflop to get callers. In the SB, you do realize that everyone who's had a chance to put in 1BB (calling the BB) has done so and you cannot possibly lose out on anything by raising?I really can't believe this thread is even halfway serious. I'm not trying to be an ass or anything, but it's just so bad that it's gotta be fake.




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