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King High Flush Draw, 3 Way Pot...


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#41 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 03:36 PM

View PostStPong, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 4:30 PM, said:

These are a lot of long posts. Someone check if my understanding is correct.The idea that calling is better than (and therefore not equivalent to) raising is essentially because:1) It's possible for us to prefer folding the turn in some circumstance(s)?2) If we don't make our hand on the turn and it goes check check we can see the river and then fold if we're still left with just K high (saving outselves some money)3) We can still get the money in later if we make our flush so we're not losing value by not putting it in before we hit...that about the gist of it?
1. Yes, in basically one unlikely circumstance we would consider folding2. Yes, and on the turn, even if goes check, check, shove, call, we still call and save ourselves money if we miss.3. Yeah, pretty much. It's quite likely that the BB has a draw as well and if we make ours and he makes his, the money goes in anyway.

#42 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 03:46 PM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 5:47 PM, said:

So, let me get this straight. From reading this paragraph, you're saying that you're gonna get him to make a mistake (or at least provide him the opportunity) by raising, and that mistake is going to be that he's gonna fail to put in this last $7 after already raising to $10?
So, let me get this straight. You can't even get the bet sizes right? He hasn't even put in half his stack.You're not even paying attention to the hand anymore.
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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#43 Zach6668

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 04:04 PM

:club:
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#44 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:10 PM

View PostTemporary Nuts, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 4:46 PM, said:

So, let me get this straight. You can't even get the bet sizes right? He hasn't even put in half his stack.You're not even paying attention to the hand anymore.
Way to take my whole post full of valid points and information and condense it into one typo and attack that. :club:

#45 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:11 PM

View PostZach6668, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 5:04 PM, said:

:club:
Yeah, you're right.

#46 tskillz187

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:11 PM

Have not read replies...I think maybe we should raise, but just a small amount.
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#47 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:18 PM

View Posttskillz187, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 8:11 PM, said:

Have not read replies...I think maybe we should raise, but just a small amount.
Odds on AK having a seizure from this thread?
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

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#48 Zach6668

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:20 PM

View PostTemporary Nuts, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 1:12 PM, said:

I raise the exact amount the button has left with plans to call BB if he chooses to push.We want to get as much money in now as possible, while the price and odds are very sexy.
FAIL
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#49 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:22 PM

View PostTemporary Nuts, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 6:18 PM, said:

Odds on AK having a seizure from this thread?
Roughly the same as the odds of you actually saying anything correct in this thread, which is pretty remote.

#50 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:24 PM

View PostZach6668, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 8:20 PM, said:

FAIL
You're like 80 posts too late
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

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#51 Zach6668

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:27 PM

Well, I tried it using poker speak first, and logic, and what not.I've given up and gone to coloured letters instead.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#52 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:27 PM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 8:22 PM, said:

Roughly the same as the odds as me opening my eyes and accepting that not all questions have one right answer, which is pretty remote.
FYP
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

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#53 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:30 PM

View PostZach6668, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 8:27 PM, said:

Well, I tried it using poker speak first, and logic, and what not.I've given up and gone to coloured letters instead.
Feel like racing at the special olympics? I'll win!!!!!!
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

Climb
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#54 Acid_Knight

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:31 PM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 3:57 PM, said:

Ya know, I'd actually be happier about this whole hand if Temporary Nuts was just saying:I think you should shove your draw becuase then the button will call off the rest of his stack and then hopefully the BB will fold and we can get HU and see both cards for another $7 while getting a good price and the play might increase my outs if a K is good and I might even fold out the NFD that the BB might hold, which would've really sucked if I played the hand more passively and the spade hit.That scenario would be fine. It's a move that I may or not choose to make, but betting fucking $7 more to put the button all in has to be the stupidest play available here next to folding.
Call>Shove>Raise>Fold AINEC

#55 Zach6668

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:32 PM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 9:31 PM, said:

Call>Shove>Raise>Fold AINEC
qft
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#56 Danny Dingleberry

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:34 PM

you know what, I was actually watching this hand, and when it happened, i placed my ear against the computer screen, where the king ten was located on the screen. I said, cards, what do you want the chips to do? and they told me they want the chips to call. argument over.

#57 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:34 PM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 8:31 PM, said:

Call>Shove>Raise>Fold AINEC
Three way race?
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

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#58 tskillz187

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:36 PM

View PostCraigdog, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 9:05 AM, said:

party poker 6 players $0.10/0.25 blinds NL HoldemHero is CO with $36.15 and has agg image but haven't done anything crazy (yet), Villian is BB and has standard steady image.BB $26.45Button $12.65Folds to Hero, Hero Riases to $0.85 with K :D 10 :D , Button calls $0.85, SB folds, BB calls, $0.60.Pot: $2.65, 3 playersFlop: J :D 4 :club: 5 :D BB Checks, Hero bets $2.25, Button raises to $5, BB calls $5, Hero?
Weak passive players might advocate a call. What I preach here is power poker. But let's not get all willy nilly throwing chips hand over fist. I like to go with the power poker plan of minimum raising, PPPOMR for short. Here's what happens when we min-raise (people that say mini suck at poker btw, it's min):1: We annoy the competition. Everyone hates a minraise. "WTF is that?" is a common reaction to seeing the minraise come out. That's a good thing.2. We get to let that shortstacking wussy decide if he wants to put himself all in. Call and leave $2 behind? I don't think so. That's power! 3. What Acid is completely disregarding in this post is crucial, BB has a full stack and is OOP. What do we do to people OOP in PPPOMR? You're God damn right, we min-raise them, and put them to a decision.Now what BB doesn't understand is this strategy for this hand is unexploitable! Pot odds? Sure we have them with the first call, but guess what?!!? WE STILL HAVE THEM after the min-raise. Gotchya bitch! Who could argue against playing in a completely unexploitable way? I don't have the answer. But clearly not a winning player (Motions head in direction of Acid Knight).I hope that this clears things up for everyone.
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#59 tskillz187

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:41 PM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 6:31 PM, said:

Call>Shove>Raise>Fold AINEC
Minraise>Miniraise>Slightlybiggerthanminraise>raise>shove
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#60 Temporary Nuts

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 05:42 PM

View Posttskillz187, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 8:36 PM, said:

Weak passive players might advocate a call. What I preach here is power poker. But let's not get all willy nilly throwing chips hand over fist. I like to go with the power poker plan of minimum raising, PPPOMR for short. Here's what happens when we min-raise (people that say mini suck at poker btw, it's min):1: We annoy the competition. Everyone hates a minraise. "WTF is that?" is a common reaction to seeing the minraise come out. That's a good thing.2. We get to let that shortstacking wussy decide if he wants to put himself all in. Call and leave $2 behind? I don't think so. That's power! 3. What Acid is completely disregarding in this post is crucial, BB has a full stack and is OOP. What do we do to people OOP in PPPOMR? You're God damn right, we min-raise them, and put them to a decision.Now what BB doesn't understand is this strategy for this hand is unexploitable! Pot odds? Sure we have them with the first call, but guess what?!!? WE STILL HAVE THEM after the min-raise. Gotchya bitch! Who could argue against playing in a completely unexploitable way? I don't have the answer. But clearly not a winning player (Motions head in direction of Acid Knight).I hope that this clears things up for everyone.
-dead-When the Button pushes and the BB just calls again to we 5 bet minraise?
QUOTE (NoBBiR @ Monday, August 11th, 2008, 7:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If god didn't want that particular law broken, he had no business making those that big.

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