13 replies to this topic

[Sheiky]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP ($1.68)Button ($1.80)Hero ($2)BB ($2.41)UTG ($5.02)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q. 1 fold, MP calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.08, 1 fold, MP calls $0.06.Flop: ($0.18) 2, T, A (2 players)Hero bets $0.1, MP calls $0.10.Turn: ($0.38) 8 (2 players)Hero bets $0.2, MP calls $0.20.River: ($0.78) 4 (2 players)Hero checks, MP checks.Final Pot: $0.78Villain is bad, as you'd expect, is this standard?

[mtdesmoines]

Sheiky, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 7:55 AM, said:

Villain is bad, as you'd expect, is this standard?

Pretty much. He's not folding his Arag to any bet.

[natedawg2]

raise to 10-12 preflop, u can raise more at these limits, bet more on the flop 2/3-3/4 of the pot is usually good. No one will fold an A at these levels, probly just got donked by A9sweeted or a FD

[NoSup4U]

I keep seeing the same threads about this, and I am not even an everyday regular here in strat. I keep asking why people want to bet their QQ on an A high flop? You need to think about WHY you would bet or check. And what your plan is down the road if you get called, or the draw hits, etc.Think about what the purpose of a flop bet would be. Do you want to fold out a better hand? Do you want to get value from a worse hand? etc. Also think about later streets. If you get called, how will you proceed? Are you likely to get bluffed by worse hands later in a larger pot? Are you going to lose value from worse hands that might have thought they were good if you checked the flop? Etc.Mark

[Zach6668]

MARK PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE THAT WE ARE TOLD TO BE AGGRESSIVE BE EEE AGGRESSIVE DAMNIT WE CANT JUST CHECK CALL THAT IS WEAK PASSIVE DUH DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POKER? WE WANT TO WIN THE POT NOT MAXIMIZE THE MONEY WE MAKE IF HE FOLDS HIS POCKET PAIR SMALLER THAN OURS WE WIN THE POT DO YOU EVEN PLAY POKER?

[Acid_Knight]

Zach6668, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 11:55 AM, said:

MARK PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE THAT WE ARE TOLD TO BE AGGRESSIVE BE EEE AGGRESSIVE DAMNIT WE CANT JUST CHECK CALL THAT IS WEAK PASSIVE DUH DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POKER? WE WANT TO WIN THE POT NOT MAXIMIZE THE MONEY WE MAKE IF HE FOLDS HIS POCKET PAIR SMALLER THAN OURS WE WIN THE POT DO YOU EVEN PLAY POKER?

ban

[Zach6668]

Acid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 3:25 PM, said:

ban me plz

ok

[Temporary Nuts]

Zach6668, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 1:55 PM, said:

MARK PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE THAT WE ARE TOLD TO BE AGGRESSIVE BE EEE AGGRESSIVE DAMNIT WE CANT JUST CHECK CALL THAT IS WEAK PASSIVE DUH DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POKER? WE WANT TO WIN THE POT NOT MAXIMIZE THE MONEY WE MAKE IF HE FOLDS HIS POCKET PAIR SMALLER THAN OURS WE WIN THE POT DO YOU EVEN PLAY POKER?

Gee who is this aimed at?Btw Mark is correct here.

[Acid_Knight]

Temporary Nuts, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 12:46 PM, said:

Btw Mark is correct here.

Read between the lines.

Zach6668, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 11:55 AM, said:

MARK PEOPLE DON'T THINK LIKE THAT WE ARE TOLD TO BE AGGRESSIVE BE EEE AGGRESSIVE DAMNIT WE CANT JUST CHECK CALL THAT IS WEAK PASSIVE DUH DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT POKER? WE WANT TO WIN THE POT NOT MAXIMIZE THE MONEY WE MAKE IF HE FOLDS HIS POCKET PAIR SMALLER THAN OURS WE WIN THE POT DO YOU EVEN PLAY POKER?

[Temporary Nuts]

Acid_Knight, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 2:49 PM, said:

Read between the lines.

Read my whole post and the other thread going at the same time and you'll see I did more than read between the lines.I'm not as think as you dumb I am.

[Acid_Knight]

Temporary Nuts, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 12:50 PM, said:

I'm not as think as you dumb I am.

An important question would be how dumb do you think I think you are?Since I hadn't really put much thought into the subject, I'm eager to hear your answer.

[Sheiky]

NoSup4U, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 6:03 PM, said:

I keep seeing the same threads about this, and I am not even an everyday regular here in strat. I keep asking why people want to bet their QQ on an A high flop? You need to think about WHY you would bet or check. And what your plan is down the road if you get called, or the draw hits, etc.Think about what the purpose of a flop bet would be. Do you want to fold out a better hand? Do you want to get value from a worse hand? etc. Also think about later streets. If you get called, how will you proceed? Are you likely to get bluffed by worse hands later in a larger pot? Are you going to lose value from worse hands that might have thought they were good if you checked the flop? Etc.Mark

Ok, could you care to answer all those questions for me about this hand?

[NoSup4U]

Sheiky, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 2:12 PM, said:

Ok, could you care to answer all those questions for me about this hand?

Well, you want to bet when you can either bluff out a better hand, or get called by a weaker hand. Nothing is an absolute, but just in general, if you bet an A high board after raising pf, you aren't going to get called by, say pocket 8s. Because everyone assumes you have the A. But you will get called by Arag. But if you check the A high flop, and he checks behind, and turn is a brick, and NOW you bet, villian is likely to think: WTF he doesn't have an A or he would have bet the flop! I'm calling with my pocket 8s!Now lets say he's flopped a draw. If you bet, many players will raise almost any draw. In which case, you'll be bet/folding when you have the best hand. If you check/call here, then check the turn, he will many times check his draw behind on the turn to get the free card. In which case, your river decision is easy. If the draw hits and he's raising you, its an easy fold. Betting an A high flop with QQ makes the hand easier to play, but less profitable long term. Thats why so many people just fire out at the flop to 'take it down' without consideration of what that means to their EV. Because they just want it to be easy. If they bet and get played back at, its an easy fold.Mark

[mtdesmoines]

NoSup4U, on Thursday, October 18th, 2007, 5:52 PM, said:

Well, you want to bet when you can either bluff out a better hand, or get called by a weaker hand. Nothing is an absolute, but just in general, if you bet an A high board after raising pf, you aren't going to get called by, say pocket 8s. Because everyone assumes you have the A. But you will get called by Arag. But if you check the A high flop, and he checks behind, and turn is a brick, and NOW you bet, villian is likely to think: WTF he doesn't have an A or he would have bet the flop! I'm calling with my pocket 8s!Now lets say he's flopped a draw. If you bet, many players will raise almost any draw. In which case, you'll be bet/folding when you have the best hand. If you check/call here, then check the turn, he will many times check his draw behind on the turn to get the free card. In which case, your river decision is easy. If the draw hits and he's raising you, its an easy fold. Betting an A high flop with QQ makes the hand easier to play, but less profitable long term. Thats why so many people just fire out at the flop to 'take it down' without consideration of what that means to their EV. Because they just want it to be easy. If they bet and get played back at, its an easy fold.Mark

Now I am remembering a pot I misplayed about a year ago ... if I would have check-called with QQ on an A82 flop with PF 3-bets, I would have taken down a super-massive pot (would have been a 3 way all-in with 6+BI stacks) against AQ and 88. The Q turned. And no, I would never have folded to two all ins.I would have asked for chips.