10 replies to this topic

[TFABOM]

This is my first post here... 1/2 limit. You're on the BB with Q 4 All fold to the SB who completes and a check from you. $2 in the pot and the flop comes: 9 10 J (rainbow).SB is a solid player. SB bets. What do y'all do? There's $3 in the pot including the SB bet.Do You:A - Call and see what SB does on the turn.B - Raise for the free card.C - Raise and then keep firing on the turn, hoping to get a fold from the SB.D - Fold, because there's not much in the pot.

[BetItAll33]

Fold. The pot is laying you 3:1 when you'd like to have 6:1 with your open ended straight draw. With only 1 opponent your implied odds are small. Small pot - Fold.

[BeanGW]

BetItAll33 said:

Fold.  The pot is laying you 3:1 when you'd like to have 6:1 with your open ended straight draw.  With only 1 opponent your implied odds are small.  Small pot - Fold.

I Disagree... maybe just for the sake of argument though.1. Isn't the pot is actually laying you 4:1 (your one dollar will make the pot $4).2. Odds of hitting an open ended straight are 3:1... pots laying you 4:1, So why do you need 6:1 to make the call? Also he's in the SB and might be trying to steal the BB.I'd raise for A) the possiblity he was bluffing and will fold right there... and B) the potential free river card... I wouldn't three-bet though.

[rog]

First off, if he's solid, he's only going to pay on the turn if he has you beat or tied, assuming your straight hits. If he did pay you one BB on later streets, the implied odds would make it worth it, but I think at least half the time you have no implied odds against a solid player.Fold or raise? Since he didn't try to steal, he's either trying to get something more than 1BB out of a big hand by letting you see a flop, OR he has trash that he wouldn't even try to steal with. I think, if my table image is loose, I fold. If my table image is solid, I raise, hope for a fold, but know I have some outs if he calls.Oh, and Eddie, your odds of hitting (required pot/implied odds) are more like 5:1 on the turn...not 6:1.

[TFABOM]

BeanGW said:

1.  Isn't the pot is actually laying you 4:1  (your one dollar will make the pot $4).2.  Odds of hitting an open ended straight are 3:1... pots laying you 4:1,   So why do you need 6:1 to make the call?   Also he's in the SB and might be trying to steal the BB.

The pot is laying you 3:1. You don't count your call (that is, if you decided to call) as part of the pot.Hitting an open ended straight is 6:1 on the next card, it's closer to 3:1 on the next two cards.

[BetItAll33]

BeanGW said:

BetItAll33 said:

Fold.  The pot is laying you 3:1 when you'd like to have 6:1 with your open ended straight draw.  With only 1 opponent your implied odds are small.  Small pot - Fold.

I Disagree... maybe just for the sake of argument though.1. Isn't the pot is actually laying you 4:1 (your one dollar will make the pot $4).2. Odds of hitting an open ended straight are 3:1... pots laying you 4:1, So why do you need 6:1 to make the call? Also he's in the SB and might be trying to steal the BB.I'd raise for A) the possiblity he was bluffing and will fold right there... and B) the potential free river card... I wouldn't three-bet though.

The pot is $3 and you must call $1. That's 3:1 by my math. (correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that I can't win money that's already mine. Would Sklansky include my bet in the calculation?)Odds of hitting my straight draw on the turn are 8/47. That means I need 5.875 to 1 odds to call. My overcard might not be a clean out, and if I miss on the turn, it could cost me more money. There are virtually no implied odds to justify reaching here, in fact, there are slight reverse implied odds. I would save my time and money and pick a different time to fight for a 1.5BB pot. I might be wrong.

[rog]

BetItAll33 said:

Odds of hitting my straight draw on the turn are 8/47.  That means I need 5.875 to 1 odds to call.  

8/47 doesn't turn into 47:8. It turns into 39:8. Those 8 cards cant count both for and against you.BTW, I changed my mind. Easy fold. There's no money here. Why look for a tiny edge to justify staying in a tiny pot with a drawing hand where you have low/no implied odds, and very little idea what your opponent holds? Dont overthink it. Let him have your blind.

[BetItAll33]

Sorry about that Rog, you're right on the numbers... it's 8/47 or 17% or 4.875 to 1. NOT 5.875 to 1, I did use 47:8Doesn't matter, I fold anyways.

[wrto4556]

If this guy is capable of making folds, raising is absolutely correct.You're getting 3-1 on a 5-1 shot. If you hit, you can make 2 BB somewhere when you hit, making it a break even call. Implied odds.But, if he's bluffing you can get him to fold the flop or turn quite a bit, making raising a profitable play.This is why semibluffing is profitable. :wink: