No Limit Learning

[Andromeda 0]

As a newbie to NLHE (and hold'em in general), I was wondering what books you would recommend to learn more about the game. I have picked up a few books already but wanted to know if there is one that you think is a must-have.I currently own:Phil Gordon's Little Green Book - yes, I bought it and yes, I enjoyed it.Sklansky - No Limit Hold'Em Theory and PracticeSklansky - Theory of PokerSklansky - Small Stakes Hold'EmSklansky - Hold'em Poker for Advanced PlayersCaro - Book of TellsBrunson - Super System 2 - is it worth getting 1 or is 2 just the revision of 1?Brunson - Online PokerNegreanu - Hold'Em Wisdom for All PlayersChen - Mathematics of PokerI may have one or two others that I can't remember right now.

[krup24 0]

wow i think you are ok in the book depti would suggest Harrington's 3 books in you wanna jump into tourneysi would also reread Sklansky's NLHE book I think its the best

[Andromeda 0]

wow i think you are ok in the book depti would suggest Harrington's 3 books in you wanna jump into tourneysi would also reread Sklansky's NLHE book I think its the best

most of these are recent buys so I haven't read them all yet - but def. am gonna get to all of them soon enough. I just started NLHE Theory and Practice last night. Surprisingly, after reading the Gordon book - a lot of it makes more sense. I guess I needed the simpleton's explanation for stuff to click cause before, the Sklansky books were a tough read. Maybe this one is just easier.will check out the Harrington ones, I definitely want to play tournaments at some point, thanks for the info.

[No_Neck 0]

As a newbie to NLHE (and hold'em in general), I was wondering what books you would recommend to learn more about the game. I have picked up a few books already but wanted to know if there is one that you think is a must-have.I currently own:Phil Gordon's Little Green Book - yes, I bought it and yes, I enjoyed it.Sklansky - No Limit Hold'Em Theory and PracticeSklansky - Theory of PokerSklansky - Small Stakes Hold'EmSklansky - Hold'em Poker for Advanced PlayersCaro - Book of TellsBrunson - Super System 2 - is it worth getting 1 or is 2 just the revision of 1?Brunson - Online PokerNegreanu - Hold'Em Wisdom for All PlayersChen - Mathematics of PokerI may have one or two others that I can't remember right now.

Wow I think you have it covered.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I never full read through the first SuperSystems... but I will say that the playstyle it advocates is almost identical to a lot of the more respected posters around here.I honestly don't think you need THAT much reading material. I'd stick with what you have (and actually read it), and get your knowledge base up high enough where you can learn the rest on the felt... I mean, if you've already got a profitable playstyle then it's really just best to rack up the experience to improve yourself as you'll have a little bankroll building going on while you're doing it.

[Andromeda 0]

thanks guys, glad to see I covered the bases here. Obviously I understand that these books are just theory and don't take place of experience. I am interested in reading these books because I feel I can learn a lot from them and apply certain things to my own game. I think by reading these, it will help my game even more alongside just playing the game.

[Andromeda 0]

oops, wrong thread...

[whiterice714 0]

wow... i've personally never even seen so many poker books haha... mind if i borrow a few? ;P*basically what you want to do w/ books is develope a fundamental understanding of the principles & characteristics of the game which you can use to form a legitimate foundation from which to base your play...dont get supersystem 1i have both 1 & 2, 1's just stupid... dont read it unless you want to get worse @ poker (cmon, it's fuccing 30 years old... nobody plays like doyle says "everyone plays like..." anymore... dated information most people have come across already... still great for fundamentals, but just buy 2 if that's the case)i've heard million things about harrington on hold em, though i odnt really play tourneys... i'm going to start b/c the bankroll benefits are amazing... $3 + $0.30 entry for a $6,000 guarantee? where do i sign up!i think i should still buy DN's books (cause lets face it, he's my fuccing hero) & the harrington on hold em onesother than that i'd recommend just continuing to come on here (try 2+2 & FlopTurnRiver as well) because i've gained more knowledge, help, & understanding of the game in one month on here than i did in a year of playing & watching religiously...

[Temporary Nuts 1]

dont get supersystem 1i have both 1 & 2, 1's just stupid... dont read it unless you want to get worse @ poker (cmon, it's fuccing 30 years old... nobody plays like doyle says "everyone plays like..." anymore... dated information most people have come across already...

FAILSupersystems is absolutely wonderful, and Doyle discovered the most profitable poker system by complete accident. You can do all the crazy math to evaluate + or - EV plays, but going by SuperSystem standards will get you in that direction 95% of the time!Yes people play differently now a days... and guess what... IT DOESN'T MATTER. I guarantee you all the best players on this site, knowingly or not, apply the CONCEPTS of supersystems into every decision they make.And if you say "don't read it unless you want to get worse @ poker" then obviously you have 0 idea of how to apply those concepts.

[Andromeda 0]

FAILSupersystems is absolutely wonderful, and Doyle discovered the most profitable poker system by complete accident. You can do all the crazy math to evaluate + or - EV plays, but going by SuperSystem standards will get you in that direction 95% of the time!Yes people play differently now a days... and guess what... IT DOESN'T MATTER. I guarantee you all the best players on this site, knowingly or not, apply the CONCEPTS of supersystems into every decision they make.And if you say "don't read it unless you want to get worse @ poker" then obviously you have 0 idea of how to apply those concepts.

but what is the real difference between 1 & 2? I kind of get the impression that 2 is the revision of 1 so I don't feel like I have to have 1 if I have 2.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

but what is the real difference between 1 & 2? I kind of get the impression that 2 is the revision of 1 so I don't feel like I have to have 1 if I have 2.

IDK I never read 2. But Supersystem 1 was only really a good read to understand the concepts Doyle is getting at. I can't imagine that 2 is that different, and I'd be fairly confident you'll gain the same knowledge base...If not just use Azeurus and get a pdf copy of the original version... and no I will/can not elaborate on that statement.But basically, the run down is that you play everything fast, even draws. You play draws fast because of the fold equity they possess and also, once there is enough money in the middle that is "dead" if you fold, that you really aren't losing in the long run by sticking the rest of it in there, and you're usually called by hands where your outs are live. Also, if you do this with draws and people pick up on it, they're more likely to pay off your sets and your 2 pairs etc that you are playing at the same speed.

[Andromeda 0]

If not just use Azeurus and get a pdf copy of the original version... and no I will/can not elaborate on that statement.

no worries man, I can borrow it from No_Neck I'm sure - or just buy the damn thing, it's not like it's that expensive considering the # of books I've already bought.Nate, I know you have both - can you tell me the difference if any between the two?

[Acid_Knight 2]

SuperSystem I and SuperSystem II are pretty much the same in the NL department. Some of the other shared sections differ slightly, but it's basically the same book.http://acidknight.blogspot.com/2007/05/required-reading.htmlI haven't read Chen's book, but given that you're just starting to learn the game, I'd put that book waaaaaaaaaaaay down at the bottom of the list. From everything I've heard about it, it's really advanced and the math gets really in depth so you must have a solid understanding of the game before you can get the full potential from that book.

[whiterice714 0]

FAILSupersystems is absolutely wonderful, and Doyle discovered the most profitable poker system by complete accident. You can do all the crazy math to evaluate + or - EV plays, but going by SuperSystem standards will get you in that direction 95% of the time!Yes people play differently now a days... and guess what... IT DOESN'T MATTER. I guarantee you all the best players on this site, knowingly or not, apply the CONCEPTS of supersystems into every decision they make.And if you say "don't read it unless you want to get worse @ poker" then obviously you have 0 idea of how to apply those concepts.

so maybe i over exagerated a little bit homie...if he has 2, he doesn't need 1it's that simple, & that's how i should have said it.. i have & have read both... then again i never play anything but NLHE so maybe the other sections are different i dont really know... OP, you do not need to purchase volume 1 now that you have volume 2... the same FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES (which DO NOT CHANGE by the way... the foundation can't go anywhere once it's been set) apply in both the first as well as the second... plus he's got about 30 more years of exp in teh 2nd one... not to mention many other contributors vs just him & 2 other guys... that's my standpoint... go ahead & buy vol1 if you like, you're likely going to be like "wow, that guy was right i should have just kept two" afterwards though... that's how i felt, i wondered wtf i even had vol1 for after i read vol2they were gifts so i couldn't really do much about it...

[ezflop212 0]

Ed Miller's "Getting Started in Hold Em" is a great first read if you are new to Hold Em in general. It starts at the rules, hand rankings, and continues on to strategies for limit, no-limit, and I believe tournaments (could be wrong about the tourneys, been a while) Harrington's books are great for tourneys and they have great quizzes at the section ends. In the beginning it is great to test your comprehension of the topics as it is pretty easy to read through several sections and not absorb any of it. And of course the forum. I haven't read either of the Super System books but had planned on buying both volumes. I guess I will save my money and just go for the second.

[David_Nicoson 1]

SuperSystem I and SuperSystem II are pretty much the same in the NL department. Some of the other shared sections differ slightly, but it's basically the same book.

The NLHE content is virtually identical.The other stuff is very different.SSI covers:

• 5 card draw high (Caro)
• 7 card stud (Reese)
• 2-7 and A-5 (with a bug) lowball -- both single draw (Hawthorne)
• Razz (a couple of pages)
• 7stud/8 (Sklansky) -- with a substantional section on declare
• Hold'em (Baldwin) Old school structures ("completing" preflop, antes, blind on the button)
• NLHE: Brunson

SSII covers:

• A bunch of crap at the beginning.
• Hold'em (Harmon)
• O/8 (Baldwin)
• stud/8 (Todd Brunson)
• PLO (Lyle Berman)
• triple draw (Negreanu)
• NLHE: Brunson

SSII is a more useful book to me because I play 0/8 and PLO. YMMV.

[David_Nicoson 1]

This is the book I recommend:Pot-Limit & No-Limit Poker by Stewart Reuben & Bob Ciaffone.Read SSHE first to get the odds and outs straight if you don't have that down. Super System is good, but if you take the colorful language too seriously you'll expensively try to run over your low limit game.

[NoBBiR 0]

FAILSupersystems is absolutely wonderful, and Doyle discovered the most profitable poker system by complete accident. You can do all the crazy math to evaluate + or - EV plays, but going by SuperSystem standards will get you in that direction 95% of the time!Yes people play differently now a days... and guess what... IT DOESN'T MATTER. I guarantee you all the best players on this site, knowingly or not, apply the CONCEPTS of supersystems into every decision they make.And if you say "don't read it unless you want to get worse @ poker" then obviously you have 0 idea of how to apply those concepts.

What David said. 1 and 2 are identical to each other in Hold'em, they just cover different games other than Hold'em. I recommend both. I bought 2, and you can download the E-Book of SS1 (I stole it off limewire). Harrington On Hold'em books are great also. You MUST read at least 1 & 2 (3 is sort of optional). Those books will help you so much with tournament play its ridiculous.Read Theory of Poker by Sklansky - twice. You'll appreciate it, A LOT. The first time through, you may miss some things because the logic can be a bit overwhelming, but if you read it twice, you'll be sure to absorb all of the great poker advice.Personally, these are my four favorite books.

[Royal_Tour 0]

i read SS1 and SS2's NL sections,also read most of Small stakes holdemand just about to finished Re-reading harrington again. I like HOH the best for tournament and sng. I find tho, you'll never get what you really need from any of the books, they are great tools, but with online poker and live poker having such differences and people bouncing around both you need to study strategy for the desired games of choice.short handed online poker varies drastically from full ring live. etc etc...

[mln_falcon 0]

I really like the sklansky/miller NLHE Theory and Practice. If your interested in No Limit, I feel it's important to understand that there is not an absolute optimal way to play like there can be in Limit games; and that No Limit is the battle of mistakes, and whoever makes the bigger mistakes is the loser. It also doesn't emphasise a style but rather gets you to understand the reasons why your style can work.

[Zach6668 513]

i read SS1 and SS2's NL sections,also read most of Small stakes holdemand just about to finished Re-reading harrington again. I like HOH the best for tournament and sng. I find tho, you'll never get what you really need from any of the books, they are great tools, but with online poker and live poker having such differences and people bouncing around both you need to study strategy for the desired games of choice.short handed online poker varies drastically from full ring live. etc etc...

There is absolutely no substitute for gaining a thourough understanding of fundamental poker theory, and then figuring out how to apply it to various game situations, whether they be live, online, shorthanded, full ring, etc.The key is to find out WHY you make the decisions all of these books are telling you to make.I don't know which book offers this though.

[Royal_Tour 0]

There is absolutely no substitute for gaining a thourough understanding of fundamental poker theory, and then figuring out how to apply it to various game situations, whether they be live, online, shorthanded, full ring, etc.The key is to find out WHY you make the decisions all of these books are telling you to make.I don't know which book offers this though.

well thats just it, like i said, the books are excellent tools, and every beginner should use a couple.but when it comes to becoming a winning player, or a level you want to be at, you need hands, situations, experience and discussion. I remember my 1st year playing, i sucked at HU situations. I only played fullring cash, and sng's, and the occasional tourney, but when i got to HU, i would rely on a lot of luck to try and pick up a hand at the right moment.eventually i started playing a lot of HU games, and now when i find myself in a HU situation in a sng or MTT, i'm ultra confident that i'll come out the winner.

[Zach6668 513]

Yup. There's really just so much the books can teach you. If you follow the books to a tee, you will be way to exploitable. You need to base your poker knowledge on everything. Everything you've absorbed in your entire life, really. When I first started, SSHE was a tremendous help to me, but it won't make me a professional poker player. It tought me the basics, and you have to learn those, and then expand from there on your own, really. Utilize poker books, forums, videos, and your own experiences to get this poker thing down.On the HU thing, I've pretty much played nothing but LHE HU in the last month or so, and really, I've never been more confident about my overall poker game.

[mln_falcon 0]

Yup. There's really just so much the books can teach you. If you follow the books to a tee, you will be way to exploitable. You need to base your poker knowledge on everything. Everything you've absorbed in your entire life, really. When I first started, SSHE was a tremendous help to me, but it won't make me a professional poker player. It tought me the basics, and you have to learn those, and then expand from there on your own, really. Utilize poker books, forums, videos, and your own experiences to get this poker thing down.On the HU thing, I've pretty much played nothing but LHE HU in the last month or so, and really, I've never been more confident about my overall poker game.

Playing HU really improved my confidence, while not giving me a huge ego, as you have to be really honest with yourself so you don't end up in -EV situations. I definitely feel playing HU let me remember how to win at 6max again. Oh yeah and not doing stupid things all the time as well.

[Naismith 0]

I find that part of the problem with book-learning and forum-learning is that you become so robotic in your play. One of the things I noticed when I was in Vegas is that a lot of the players seemed to analyze every single move from an EV perspective. Wait, that's not what I'm trying to say since everything eventually comes down to EV......ummm...I think it becomes such a computer program for some that they have a hard time sacrificing immediate EV for a greater return in the future. Does that make sense or do ISAEM?I think it's important, as Zach said, to figure out why you're doing what you're doing so you can really peel apart the many layers of the game. Holy crap, this is my worst post ever.