5 replies to this topic

[strategy]

Party Poker (10 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is BB with [4s], [3c], [Tc], [4d]. 4 folds, Hero checks.Flop: [8s], [4h], [2d] (6 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.Turn: [5s] (6 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 folds, Button folds, Hero folds.River: [Ad] (3 players)Final Pot: The converter mangled it somewhat, but the question can still be asked. What is the correct play here? I flopped middle set, but there's a great chance someone else has a hand to take half of my pot right off the bat, and I could be up against 88 anyway. Was checking to see a turn and fill up a good play? The pot was not big enough to blow anybody off of a decent low or a decent high draw (567x, for example).Once the turn hit, I was done with the hand (obviously), but what about the flop? Was I right to check?

[srblan]

I'd probably have put a bet in on the flop. You probably have the best high at this point, but if you get raised, it's probably not a terrible play to toss it. On the turn, it looked like you folded without a bet, though that could be the hand converter mangling. On the river, well, in a limit game, I might have gotten there, though having bet on the flop, it would have been easier for me to get there (bigger pot means better drawing odds, since if the board pairs, you are probably still okay). I just reread the title, and noticed that it was PL8. In that case, I'd bet the flop then fold to any kind of heavy action. There is no way I'm making it to the river there without my opponents acting stupid.Oh, I didn't notice the suits on the turn. In that case, you're right, hand over. I don't see a problem with betting the flop since you are either ahead (which makes it a good value bet), or you are way behind (which would make it a good probative bet). I would have bet the flop for information.If I was up against 567x, as you mentioned, I'm very happy, since that is a very lousy O8 starting hand, and I want my opponents holding stuff like that. In this case, obviously, it would not have been good, but I always get a warm feeling inside when I see that type of hand at showdown.

[strategy]

srblan said:

I'd probably have put a bet in on the flop. You probably have the best high at this point, but if you get raised, it's probably not a terrible play to toss it. On the turn, it looked like you folded without a bet, though that could be the hand converter mangling. On the river, well, in a limit game, I might have gotten there, though having bet on the flop, it would have been easier for me to get there (bigger pot means better drawing odds, since if the board pairs, you are probably still okay). I just reread the title, and noticed that it was PL8. In that case, I'd bet the flop then fold to any kind of heavy action. There is no way I'm making it to the river there without my opponents acting stupid.Oh, I didn't notice the suits on the turn. In that case, you're right, hand over. I don't see a problem with betting the flop since you are either ahead (which makes it a good value bet), or you are way behind (which would make it a good probative bet). I would have bet the flop for information.If I was up against 567x, as you mentioned, I'm very happy, since that is a very lousy O8 starting hand, and I want my opponents holding stuff like that. In this case, obviously, it would not have been good, but I always get a warm feeling inside when I see that type of hand at showdown.

You'll get lots of warm fuzzy feelings at Party's $25PLO8. Someone raised me from early position (I was in the BB with A256, one of my favs) with AAA4 once.I just didn't see what betting the flop would do for me. The bet would have been $1-$1.25, which with 4 callers would have made the pot about $6. Enough to blow a flush draw or a wrap out on the turn? Probably not, given the loose calls they make. My reasoning behind checking was that I was gunning for at best half the pot with my middle set with that flop, so I was done with it.I would not have even been in the hand had I not been in the big blind. This is a great example of flopping a set that's in coordination with a low board.Sorry about the bet amounts, I didn't notice it had taken THOSE out too. Just know that on the flop, the pot was not very big and there was no action. On the turn, someone potted it, someone raised moderately, and I and a few others mucked. Top two took the high, and some silly low took the other half.I think it's ok to avoid the marginal situations, though. What's the point when someone's just waiting to pay you off when you've got the nuts?

[srblan]

Nobody had a wheel? You're right about waiting to get bet into with the nuts, but you will often make more money off of bad players by value betting marginal (but still best) hands by using superior reading ability. My only point was that making a pot sized bet would potentially give you information. For instance, if you pot it and then it gets raised, you know that you are against someone with a bigger set, an idiot (most likely case), or someone with an uncounterfeitable low. If the board pairs on the turn, you could really get hurt running into a set of 8s. The emphasis on the "pro" side of betting is gaining information or value betting while you are ahead. Yes, it is for only half of the pot, but if you are up against two people with the same low, you are getting 50 cents of every dollar they put in as opposed to the quarter that they are getting back. I understand the reasoning for checking, but I like to know where I am in a hand, and I think that betting would give me the most information. No need to explain the reason behind playing the hand either I checked that as I was writing the first post, I said to myself, "What the heck was he... oh, I get it, BB..."

[strategy]

I know this is totally unrelated, but I've been trying to figure out a good way to ask this question.What's a reasonable bad streak? I went 250 hands without scooping a pot outright a few days ago. I lost $20 in blinds and small pots over that stretch.

[srblan]

strategy said:

I know this is totally unrelated, but I've been trying to figure out a good way to ask this question.What's a reasonable bad streak?  I went 250 hands without scooping a pot outright a few days ago.  I lost $20 in blinds and small pots over that stretch.

That's a well-disciplined bad streak. Some days the cards just don't fall right, despite your best efforts. Other days, you might be playing weak-tight because you took a bad beat early on and it hurt your confidence. If you can keep folding and not resort to playing trash, just because it's the best you've seen all night. The thing that separates the professionals from the recreational players is their ability to keep folding hands even when they feel like they have to force action to get back in the game. If you can get through a bad luck streak without blowing a sizeable portion of your bankroll then you are money ahead. If you are starting to feel frustration, switch tables or try a different game. I have been playing a lot of stud and limit O8 lately because it is easier for me psychologically to handle a game where I am expecting to get drawn out on. Knowing that one hand is not as big of a favorite over another hand preflop, or on 3rd street, it is easier for me to deal with the beats, since I realize that I was not that far ahead in the first place. I rarely raise with aces (in stud and O8), knowing that in a loose game that they are probably going to need improvement to win, and knowing that by not raising, I am disguising the fact that I have them.So, the long answer to your question is that bad streaks happen, and there is no way of saying what a long or a short one is. The key is to keep asking yourself "Am I playing good hands?" or "Am I chasing here?" Always assuming the worst in omaha is a fair survival instinct, but using your instinct to determine your opponents' hands will help you to reduce the number of times that you are throwing away the winner where it would have been correct to play on. I have gone whole nights without winning a pot and instead of doing the right thing and changing games, I got stubborn and tried to play on. That was a mistake. Bad days happen, but you don't have to handle them badly.