23 replies to this topic

[SCS]

Villain is tag (23.08/16.92/2.25 65 hands), but seems to overplay some of his hands. For example, in a previous hand villain raised and I called from the blinds with A9s. I flop a flush and bet, villain raises and I shove for villain's stack, which was about $35. Villain calls and shows a pair of aces.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)MP ($11.80)Button ($25)SB ($29)BB ($28.15)Hero ($94.35)Preflop: Hero is UTG with , . Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds.Flop: ($2.05) , , (2 players)Hero bets $1.5, Button calls $1.50.Turn: ($5.05) (2 players)Hero bets $3.5, Button raises to $22.65 (All-In), Hero...So, given what we know about villain, do we call or fold here?

[No_Neck]

SCS, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 9:28 PM, said:

Villain is tag (23.08/16.92/2.25 65 hands), but seems to overplay some of his hands. For example, in a previous hand villain raised and I called from the blinds with A9s. I flop a flush and bet, villain raises and I shove for villain's stack, which was about $35. Villain calls and shows a pair of aces.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)MP ($11.80)Button ($25)SB ($29)BB ($28.15)Hero ($94.35)Preflop: Hero is UTG with , . Hero raises to $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds.Flop: ($2.05) , , (2 players)Hero bets $1.5, Button calls $1.50.Turn: ($5.05) (2 players)Hero bets $3.5, Button raises to $22.65 (All-In), Hero...So, given what we know about villain, do we call or fold here?

I think I still fold. you really can't beat much and you have to be right a lot of the time for this to be neutral EV

[danc1984]

This is a pretty sick spot, but what could he possibly do this with that we are head of? He overplayed the hand you mentioned for sure but he still had AA. I think we have to put him on a better K or a boat here, unless he is tilting it off, but I think it seems kind of unlikely.

[over-it]

If you don't know whether or not you are ahead here, then you need to make larger bets on the flop. 3/4 pot is an awkward bet to try and read someone with. Bet 1.5 times the pot. That way if they call you can safely assume that they probably have something. Your raise on the turn is also small-ball style. This is the preferred technique of a lot of the pros, but that is because they are really good at reading the situation. People like myself, and most of the people on here I would assume, are a little over our heads sometimes when trying to emulate the techniques of the pros. I honestly don't see why you would fold this hand, but that's just me.

[Naismith]

over-it, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 7:47 PM, said:

If you don't know whether or not you are ahead here, then you need to make larger bets on the flop. 3/4 pot is an awkward bet to try and read someone with. Bet 1.5 times the pot. That way if they call you can safely assume that they probably have something. Your raise on the turn is also small-ball style. This is the preferred technique of a lot of the pros, but that is because they are really good at reading the situation. People like myself, and most of the people on here I would assume, are a little over our heads sometimes when trying to emulate the techniques of the pros. I honestly don't see why you would fold this hand, but that's just me.

EDIT: I think my post came off unintentionally rude, so I deleted it.

[NoBBiR]

Naismith, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 6:54 PM, said:

EDIT: I think my post came off unintentionally rude, so I deleted it.

Like you care.

[StPong]

No_Neck, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 8:33 PM, said:

I think I still fold. you really can't beat much and you have to be right a lot of the time for this to be neutral EV

I think No_Neck's response is dead on. Fold angrily thinking it's AQs a good portion of the time. Why wouldn't a boat give you a better price? Same goes for something like AK.

[NoBBiR]

If he's a tag, I'm never calling the turn even if he does overplay hands sometimes. If he lag, you could make a case, but still.

[over-it]

Naismith, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 7:54 PM, said:

EDIT: I think my post came off unintentionally rude, so I deleted it.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be offended by any reply. Most replies here are critical of peoples' play, and none of us really know much about each others' track record or past results. Different people play different styles because no strategy will guarantee victory every time. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would disagree with my post, but my point is that if you don't gain any info on your opponent with a raise, which this guy didn't since he is posting about it, then you really didn't accomplish anything with it.

[SCS]

over-it, on Wednesday, October 3rd, 2007, 6:53 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be offended by any reply. Most replies here are critical of peoples' play, and none of us really know much about each others' track record or past results. Different people play different styles because no strategy will guarantee victory every time. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would disagree with my post, but my point is that if you don't gain any info on your opponent with a raise, which this guy didn't since he is posting about it, then you really didn't accomplish anything with it.

It's not that I didn't gain info, it's that sometimes that making decisions are difficult even with the info given.This is almost always a fold in almost every other situation. The difference here is the way villain plays, and his possible state of mind. Also, I never raised, except for preflop.

[psujohn]

Tough spot. I have a hard time playing against the massive overbet at these levels. Typically I think "there's no way he'd do it with the nuts" and call only to be shown the nuts. Which is likely why the massive overbet is such a good move.A strong read would help a lot here. Does villain often 3-bet pre-flop or is he likely to smooth call hands like QQ, KQ, AK, AQ behind you? Would he slowplay flopped trips here? Would he slowplay KQ and then shove the turn when he fills up? Honestly none of that makes sense to me but I've certainly seen it all. Typically in these hands I just fall back on pot odds. You're getting less than 2:1 on your call. I'd fold it though I think there's a decent chance you're way ahead here.

[Acid_Knight]

Fold.

[Temporary Nuts]

Insult his mother in the chat.Then fold.

[mtdesmoines]

SCS, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 5:28 PM, said:

So, given what we know about villain, do we call or fold here?

You're kikcer sukcs.

[Temporary Nuts]

mtdesmoines, on Wednesday, October 3rd, 2007, 10:57 AM, said:

You're tpyign nad gramer sukcs

FYP

[Acid_Knight]

over-it, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 7:47 PM, said:

I honestly don't see why you would fold this hand, but that's just me.

Can you really not think of any reasons?

[Acid_Knight]

Temporary Nuts, on Wednesday, October 3rd, 2007, 7:59 AM, said:

FYP

[SCS]

Does anyone think villain has AhQh, QhJh, QhTh here enough times to negate the times villain has AK, KQ, QQ or 66?

[danc1984]

SCS, on Thursday, October 4th, 2007, 1:15 AM, said:

Does anyone think villain has AhQh, QhJh, QhTh here enough times to negate the times villain has AK, KQ, QQ or 66?

His stats seem extremely standard. Unless he is seriously tilting it off I lay it down. If he has been tilting it pretty much just becomes a judgement call. But given this information, I would fold.

[SCS]

danc1984, on Wednesday, October 3rd, 2007, 11:19 AM, said:

His stats seem extremely standard. Unless he is seriously tilting it off I lay it down. If he has been tilting it pretty much just becomes a judgement call. But given this information, I would fold.

Lots of people tilt after stacking off on a pair of aces for 2 buyins.