16 replies to this topic

[Emptyeye]

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Emptyeye is MP2 with Js, Qs.UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, Emptyeye calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB checks.Not in the greatest of positions, but it's a high suited connector, so I'll try and see a cheap flop with it.Flop: (5.40 SB) Jd, As, 5s (5 players)BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Emptyeye raises, CO folds, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.That is a quality flop for me, as I have outs to all sorts of fun things. I raise when UTG+1 bets into me, and UTG sees fit to call two cold. Hmm.Turn: (5.70 BB) Jh (3 players)UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Emptyeye raises, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Emptyeye caps, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.Turn trips and raise it again. The check/3-bet from UTG doesn't particularly concern me, and this is why: I'm playing micro-limit, where I know people have a tendency to chase draws of any kind without regards to kicker, and stay in with anything. In short, I put him on the case jack with a weaker kicker than my queen. AJ should have bet the flop, which makes the Bill Fillmaff (That's KJ, if you're wondering) the only thing I'm really worried about. I'll risk that he's playing that.River: (17.70 BB) 9h (3 players)UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, Emptyeye raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.UTG +1 fires again, but I think I'm good here (As he never 3-bet me when I played back at him) and raise for value.Final Pot: 23.70 BBShould I have even played this preflop? Anything I should have done differently?

[KDawgCometh]

the only thing different I would've done is raising PF. You have good equity with a suited broadway there so you want to get extra $$$ into that pot PF. other then that vnh

[mark33f]

I like the limp with high suited connector even though you dont have position...Why not play that and try to hit a nice flop in an unraised pot, though Q J isnt strong in a multiway raised pot.In the unraised pot...marginal to put someone on an ace, which I wouldn't in this type of game (I dont know tendencies though because I dont play micro limit online) Definitley doesnt/wouldnt put someone on A J because why would anyone limp with it??Good raise with middle pair and flush draw you gotta think you are in front...Otherwise, good pot, good result. I would have played it the same way.Just my 2 cents...

[akishore]

i think the entire hand is fine.would you really raise pf, kdawg?little suited broadways aren't usually raisable, are they?aseem

[akishore]

mark33f said:

Q J isnt strong in a multiway raised pot.

it's still strong in a raised pot if the flop will be five-way or more.aseem

[KDawgCometh]

akishore said:

i think the entire hand is fine.would you really raise pf, kdawg?little suited broadways aren't usually raisable, are they?aseem

yup. This hand looks like it will be multiway in which the hand has equity. especially against two open donk limps I like my hand enough to raise it up here. If its folded to me then I definetly open raise here

[Petoria]

I would just call on the flop, bc you want even more marginal holdings to come along for the ride and maybe catch another small pair when you hit your flush. You are behind in the hand to any A, many people would take one off with bottom pair for one bet, especially at the level, but not two. Maybe I'm wrong and the raise does disguise your hand pretty well.You might as well be raising when you hit that J on the turn. River is fine.The only time I'll raise with QJs is when I'm in late position. I raise to build a pot. It has equity with many players in.

[KDawgCometh]

Petoria said:

I would just call on the flop, bc you want even more marginal holdings to come along for the ride and maybe catch another small pair when you hit your flush. You are behind in the hand to any A, many people would take one off with bottom pair for one bet, especially at the level, but not two. Maybe I'm wrong and the raise does disguise your hand pretty well.You might as well be raising when you hit that J on the turn. River is fine.The only time I'll raise with QJs is when I'm in late position. I raise to build a pot. It has equity with many players in.

uhh, you are in late position. your btn-3. this is why I advocate raising this pot here, you are pot building. you must raise that flop. you have 9 spade outs, 3 queen outs, 2 jack outs, and 1.5 outs for the backdoor broadway. looks like a good spot to raise if you ask me

[mark33f]

it's still strong in a raised pot if the flop will be five-way or more. aseemsorry, could you explain why for me (why five-way or more)?

[RonBurgundy]

KDawgCometh said:

Petoria said:

I would just call on the flop, bc you want even more marginal holdings to come along for the ride and maybe catch another small pair when you hit your flush. You are behind in the hand to any A, many people would take one off with bottom pair for one bet, especially at the level, but not two. Maybe I'm wrong and the raise does disguise your hand pretty well.You might as well be raising when you hit that J on the turn. River is fine.The only time I'll raise with QJs is when I'm in late position. I raise to build a pot. It has equity with many players in.

uhh, you are in late position. your btn-3. this is why I advocate raising this pot here, you are pot building. you must raise that flop. you have 9 spade outs, 3 queen outs, 3 jack outs, and 1.5 outs for the backdoor broadway. looks like a good spot to raise if you ask me

2 jack outs :-)

[KDawgCometh]

RonBurgundy said:

KDawgCometh said:

Petoria said:

I would just call on the flop, bc you want even more marginal holdings to come along for the ride and maybe catch another small pair when you hit your flush. You are behind in the hand to any A, many people would take one off with bottom pair for one bet, especially at the level, but not two. Maybe I'm wrong and the raise does disguise your hand pretty well.You might as well be raising when you hit that J on the turn. River is fine.The only time I'll raise with QJs is when I'm in late position. I raise to build a pot. It has equity with many players in.

uhh, you are in late position. your btn-3. this is why I advocate raising this pot here, you are pot building. you must raise that flop. you have 9 spade outs, 3 queen outs, 2 jack outs, and 1.5 outs for the backdoor broadway. looks like a good spot to raise if you ask me

2 jack outs :-)

that's what I said, just look at the quote :wink:

[akishore]

Petoria said:

I would just call on the flop, bc you want even more marginal holdings to come along for the ride and maybe catch another small pair when you hit your flush. You are behind in the hand to any A, many people would take one off with bottom pair for one bet, especially at the level, but not two. Maybe I'm wrong and the raise does disguise your hand pretty well.

the flop is a prime place to raise both for value and to protect your hand.you have Qs-Js, and the flop is As-Jd-5s. you obviously have strong equity, so raising for value is fine.but why raise the bet when it's immediately on your right?because the pot is big at this point, and you want to protect your hand. you protect your hand by making opponents choose between calling unprofitably and folding, and that's a lose-lose situation for them (making it a win-win situation for you, since calling without proper pot odds gives you money and folding gives you a higher chance of winning the big pot).by making the rest of the field face two cold, you want to make hands like K-10, K-x offsuit with the K of spades, A-x, and 5-x fold. if you just called, all those hands might call, and you're in trouble then if the turn brings a Q (K-10 hit the gutshot), a spade (K-x offsuit with the K of spades now has a higher flush draw), a rag (A-x might now have two pair against you, killing your queen outs and killing a spade out), a 5 (giving 5-x trips, killing your queen outs and a spade out), etc.it's temping to just call here to avoid losing customers, but SSHE advocates raising to protect your hand since the pot is big and your main objective now is to win the pot as often as you can. if raising there improves your winning chances by 10%, it's a profitable raise since the pot is big.make sense?aseem

[akishore]

mark33f said:

it's still strong in a raised pot if the flop will be five-way or more. aseemsorry, could you explain why for me (why five-way or more)?

what makes low-limit games easy to beat is that players often play too many hands and go too far with them. this makes for good dead money.that's also why higher-limit games are tougher to beat, because there isn't a lot of dead money in many of the pots.so when someone raises, and everyone folds to you, and you wake up to Q-J suited, it's an easy fold since you're probably dominated or at least an underdog.however, when someone raises and three people call before you, you can call profitably because of the dead money. you KNOW that you're probably an underdog to the raiser, but your Q-J suited has good equity against the rest of the field. so, you make more money from the rest of the field than you lose to the raiser, which makes calling profitable.that's why a lot of hands become callable even in raised pots if the pot is multi-way.aseem

[mark33f]

that's also why higher-limit games are tougher to beat, because there isn't a lot of dead money in many of the pots. Yeah I agree, I mostly play live "higher" limits, maybe that's why I didn't understand the multiway pot thing/it confused me because you wont have the five or six people in an unraised pot.

[Absolute]

Oh, raising PF.I like it.

[KDawgCometh]

Absolute said:

Oh, raising PF.I like it.

it ties people to the pot in the event of this type of flop

[wrto4556]

raise preflop. your hand has equity.imo, go for overcalls on the river. He may have Ak or may have AJ, im not really sure....eit.er way you have everyone else behind you beat,