3 Of A Kind Facing Turn Raise In Alimped Pot

[ActionFalko 0]

Unfortunately Everest Poker has no convertable Hand History. But I remember everything important exactly.I have no reads on villain, unfortunately.But as a rule of thumb: Players on Everest Poker at this level are normally braindead. Just kidding. I would not see me as any different, meaning: I think I am not that much a better player than the rest.5 players see a limped pot. Hero is on the button with :3hPot: $1.25 (5players)Flop: :D :4cIt is checked to me and I bet the pot and get called only by the BB, who is the Villain. We both had about $25 to start with.Pot: $3.75 (2 players)Turn: :jhVillain checks and I bet potsize again $3.75. This time I get check-raised to $12. I know that if I call, all the chips will go to the center.Hero folds? I mean a random hand in the BB with 4 in it normally has a better kicker then me, right?

[Acid_Knight 2]

Either shove the turn or call the turn and call the river.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Shove the turn or fold.If you really want to credit him for 6-6, J-J, or a random 4 that's fine.... though this isn't J-J.The other hands that could make this move on you are an overpair, a draw, or some random retard hand that caught a jack. If you decide you're probably up against these you have to shove in order to ensure their money gets in now.Basically, if a time occurs when "if I call all the chips will eventually go in", in order to continue you must put those chips in yourself.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Basically, if a time occurs when "if I call all the chips will eventually go in", in order to continue you must put those chips in yourself.

True, if you want him to consider folding. The only real benefit of shoving here is when he will call AI with a draw that he would not have bluffed all-in on the river with. If we shove now, he will likely fold any hand that we beat and call with most drawings hands and hands that beat us. If we just call, he will bet the hands on the river that beat us (we were calling anyway, so we don't really care) and he will bluff with his missed draws or his total crap hands that were a full out bluff anyway. The reason that I dislike pushing is that it makes him fold worse hands where if we just flat call and the river bricks, he might put us on a missed draw and check/call our allin with a weaker hand taht he would not have called all in on the turn with.

[ActionFalko 0]

Either shove the turn or call the turn and call the river.

I thought that if I shove the turn, that he will fold all worse hands including his draws. I thought it's agood idea (but I am probably wrong) to bet potsize to give him incorrect odds to draw, in case he is drawing.Isn't it possible that he started with something random like 49 in the BB and decided to trap? I mean isn't a Flop-Call Turn Check-Raise a indication of another random 4 in the BB?

[mtdesmoines 2]

True, if you want him to consider folding. The only real benefit of shoving here is when he will call AI with a draw that he would not have bluffed all-in on the river with. If we shove now, he will likely fold any hand that we beat and call with most drawings hands and hands that beat us. If we just call, he will bet the hands on the river that beat us (we were calling anyway, so we don't really care) and he will bluff with his missed draws or his total crap hands that were a full out bluff anyway. The reason that I dislike pushing is that it makes him fold worse hands where if we just flat call and the river bricks, he might put us on a missed draw and check/call our allin with a weaker hand taht he would not have called all in on the turn with.

Solid thinking, although I think this is a bigger 4.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If you think he has a 4, it's obv bigger than yours and you should fold. If you think he has any other hand, I think that you should shove or call/call.I think it's unlikely that he folds draws if you shove the turn, but I could be wrong.

[ActionFalko 0]

If you think he has any other hand,

This was my problem. What kind of other hand could he have here that fits to his line so far?? Any Overpair should have raised pf. When he is on a draw, why called he on the flop and is now check.raising? I mean, if he is that aggro, then he could have raised on the flop...I just couldn't see any other hand, I am beating.But maybe I am wrong. Are there hands which fit to his line so far?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

This was my problem. What kind of other hand could he have here that fits to his line so far?? Any Overpair should have raised pf. When he is on a draw, why called he on the flop and is now check.raising? I mean, if he is that aggro, then he could have raised on the flop...I just couldn't see any other hand, I am beating.But maybe I am wrong. Are there hands which fit to his line so far?

K-J diamonds

[mtdesmoines 2]

K-J diamonds

KdJd lets the field limp in from the BB?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

KdJd lets the field limp in from the BB?

For me it does

[mtdesmoines 2]

For me it does

Ouch, babe. If we're the villain, and we don't hit, we're about to find out why we shouldn't do that.

[Acid_Knight 2]

KdJd lets the field limp in from the BB?

KJs OOP is not a great hand. I check this in the BB becuase I would check most hands in the BB so that it keeps my opponents guessing later on to whether I checked good broadway cards, a medium pair or total garbage.For Action Falko, there are tons of times where someone just decides to rep trips from the blinds here becuase it's very believable that they have them. It's just a straight out bluff from the start. I think his 3 most likely hands are this straight out bluff, the actual 4x hand, and Jxdd.

[ActionFalko 0]

For Action Falko, there are tons of times where someone just decides to rep trips from the blinds here becuase it's very believable that they have them. It's just a straight out bluff from the start. I think his 3 most likely hands are this straight out bluff, the actual 4x hand, and Jxdd.

Thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it. I think the players on my level, especially on Everest Poker (with a lot of French ) are not that clever, to set up a bluff right from the beginning. But this is an idea, I haven't thought of so far. So thank you vey much again.

[mtdesmoines 2]

KJs OOP is not a great hand. I check this in the BB becuase I would check most hands in the BB so that it keeps my opponents guessing later on to whether I checked good broadway cards, a medium pair or total garbage.For Action Falko, there are tons of times where someone just decides to rep trips from the blinds here becuase it's very believable that they have them. It's just a straight out bluff from the start. I think his 3 most likely hands are this straight out bluff, the actual 4x hand, and Jxdd.

Sure, it's not great, but it's no so bad we can't test it against a field of limpers.. If I am seeing consistent limping to me in the BB, I'm raising KJ suited all night long. We need to charge a price of admission for flops. Seriously. I don't want 74o outflopping my sooted KJ when I've got dead money in.

[danc1984 0]

Sure, it's not great, but it's no so bad we can't test it against a field of limpers.. If I am seeing consistent limping to me in the BB, I'm raising KJ suited all night long. We need to charge a price of admission for flops. Seriously. I don't want 74o outflopping my sooted KJ when I've got dead money in.

Nothing wrong with your reasoning but the point is that the standard 6max $25nl player does not raise KJ from the BB when it is limped to them.

[Money022 0]

There are a few big draws out there that might be in the mix, such as 75s or 53s. But I would expect those hands to lead out or check raise you on the flop. I'm wondering if any other 4x would limp into the pot though. Perhaps a suited 4 with a A/K might. I really like Acid Knight's line though. Calling the turn and then check calling the river will probably accomplish the same as pushing the turn, but will keep hands that you beat in the mix.

[Money022 0]

I remember everything important....I have no reads on villain...

Oh yeah, I thought this was funny, but I'm easily amused.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Nothing wrong with your reasoning but the point is that the standard 6max $25nl player does not raise KJ from the BB when it is limped to them.

If we only do what's standard, the rake eats us all.

[danc1984 0]

If we only do what's standard, the rake eats us all.

I am just saying that KJs is in the villain's range here as he is probably pretty close to standard for this limit as the OP has no real read on him. Raising KJs from BB when limped to is ok, but I still think that 75% of players at these tables will check it, making it a part of his range.

[NoBBiR 0]

Why can't this be any big draw - not just KJdd? There are pretty much infinite holdings for the BB here. He could have flopped the OESFD, trips, a boat, turned QJdd, KJdd, J10dd, J9dd, all the way down to J2dd. Hell he could have top two pair. There are so many hands that the villain could have in this situation I think it is hard to get away personally, on top of all that its 6 max. However, given that it is 25 max, a lot of those players are NITs, so maybe it is a fold.

[danc1984 0]

Why can't this be any big draw - not just KJdd? There are pretty much infinite holdings for the BB here. He could have flopped the OESFD, trips, a boat, turned QJdd, KJdd, J10dd, J9dd, all the way down to J2dd. Hell he could have top two pair. There are so many hands that the villain could have in this situation I think it is hard to get away personally, on top of all that its 6 max. However, given that it is 25 max, a lot of those players are NITs, so maybe it is a fold.

I agree KJdd is a very very small part of the villain's range here and I do not think he has it. I was just saying that it, and hands like it cannot be discounted from his range on the basis that he would have raised, as many players need a fairly big hand to raise from the BB with at this level.

[danc1984 0]

Also, I fold in this spot. I think the villain has a better 4. A read would have been good.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I am just saying that KJs is in the villain's range here as he is probably pretty close to standard for this limit as the OP has no real read on him. Raising KJs from BB when limped to is ok, but I still think that 75% of players at these tables will check it, making it a part of his range.

OK, I see what you're saying. I hate online poker at these levels. ****ing multi-tabling baller-NITS with their $100 bankrollz.

[ActionFalko 0]

Oh yeah, I thought this was funny, but I'm easily amused.

Everything important for the hand details. But yes I am not that great at observing people. Maybe the most important reason why I am still playing at NL$25