Aqs, Tptk And Flush Draw On Turn

[Dictius 0]

Villian is 50.51/11.4/1.76 after about 100 hands.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button ($3.95)SB ($7.90)Hero ($25.80)UTG ($9.15)MP ($15.20)CO ($9)Preflop: Hero is BB with A , Q . 2 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.5, CO folds, SB calls $0.30.Flop: ($1) 2 , Q , 3 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.6, SB calls $0.60.Turn: ($2.20) 6 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $1.7, SB raises to $6.9 (All-In), Hero calls?Standard?

[mkeller3086 0]

Villian is 50.51/11.4/1.76 after about 100 hands.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button ($3.95)SB ($7.90)Hero ($25.80)UTG ($9.15)MP ($15.20)CO ($9)Preflop: Hero is BB with A , Q . 2 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.5, CO folds, SB calls $0.30.Flop: ($1) 2 , Q , 3 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.6, SB calls $0.60.Turn: ($2.20) 6 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $1.7, SB raises to $6.9 (All-In), Hero calls?Standard?

calls

[dbl_j_22 0]

Villian most likely has the 45 straight here, just looking at those 3 stats I put him in the calling station category, but some other reads would be nice here. If you are playing a decently solid enough game, as in not being a crazy maniac, then I wouldn't worry about this type of villian making a play at the pot.We need to know how often he check-raises, and a little more about his overall agression, but if you have him pegged as acalling station that rarely check raises I wouldn't put in the extra money here, even with the flush draw.With that said, that's hardly ever the case, it has to be that specific calling station villian that doesn't check raise bluff to not call here. Against every standard tag, lag, and just normal player I put my money in the pot, but I'm speculating he's not the guy I want to put my money in against.

[Money022 0]

calls

+1

[mtdesmoines 3]

SB checks, Hero bets $1.7, SB raises to $6.9 (All-In), Hero calls?Standard?

oh yeah baby

[Scott3705 0]

blah.I can just hear the comments from the other way. "Standard. Donks at this level couldn't even fold AQ here let alone an overpair." Poker is a frustrating game.Stakes make me calling it. Action makes me fold it.

[mtdesmoines 3]

blah.I can just hear the comments from the other way. "Standard. Donks at this level couldn't even fold AQ here let alone an overpair." Poker is a frustrating game.Stakes make me calling it. Action makes me fold it.

All true.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Check behind on the turn.I'd bet the turn if I were playing limit, because if it turns out he has a hand we can shrug and call the one bet, not having lost much EV.Don't reopen the betting with lots of outs in NLHE unless you're happy with getting all the chips in.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Check behind on the turn.I'd bet the turn if I were playing limit, because if it turns out he has a hand we can shrug and call the one bet, not having lost much EV.Don't reopen the betting with lots of outs in NLHE unless you're happy with getting all the chips in.

FAILHe had 0 reason to think he was behind. TP/TK with a flush draw to boot when the opponent has shown 0 aggression this hand is DEFINITELY a hand we're betting... and we're in positionOh, and given the opponent this is a fold, though calling isn't exactly a horrific mistake. I'm more inclined to think he shows up with a set here.

[Scott3705 0]

FAIL

[mtdesmoines 3]

FAILHe had 0 reason to think he was behind. TP/TK with a flush draw to boot when the opponent has shown 0 aggression this hand is DEFINITELY a hand we're betting... and we're in positionOh, and given the opponent this is a fold, though calling isn't exactly a horrific mistake. I'm more inclined to think he shows up with a set here.

LOL. Don't let Fridays go to waste.

[David_Nicoson 1]

FAILHe had 0 reason to think he was behind. TP/TK with a flush draw to boot when the opponent has shown 0 aggression this hand is DEFINITELY a hand we're betting... and we're in positionOh, and given the opponent this is a fold, though calling isn't exactly a horrific mistake. I'm more inclined to think he shows up with a set here.

The reason to think he's behind is that the most logical draw just hit. The villain can logically have a straight, a set, something random that he will represent those hands with, or a weaker queen. All of those hands except the queen will very likely check/raise. The only time we need the flush is when we're already beat and we're always raised off of it by betting. So what good is the flush draw with the bet/fold line? Almost none. It kills one of his two-pair outs. Bet/bet is perhaps better against say QJ etc., but the villain may in fact figure out he's out-kicked when we bet the turn and fold a hand there that he would've paid us off with on the river with check/bet.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

The reason to think he's behind is that the most logical draw just hit. The villain can logically have a straight, a set, something random that he will represent those hands with, or a weaker queen. All of those hands except the queen will very likely check/raise. The only time we need the flush is when we're already beat and we're always raised off of it by betting. So what good is the flush draw with the bet/fold line? Almost none. It kills one of his two-pair outs. Bet/bet is perhaps better against say QJ etc., but the villain may in fact figure out he's out-kicked when we bet the turn and fold a hand there that he would've paid us off with on the river with check/bet.

You still fail.The only thing he could have done better was not bet so hard... I would have prefered a half to 3/4 pot sized bet, but that's my own style.This guy is a calling station. Why are you afraid of folding out a calling stations worst hands? In case you didn't notice, calling stations like to call.And you can't be afraid to bet at every f^$#@kin draw that completes in a heads up pot. This isn't a tournament where playing super-cautious has any argument. You have TP/TK in position with a redraw to the nuts versus an opponent that has show 0 aggression and is a calling station. If you can't bet in this situation you have redefined nit, you play scared poker, and you shouldn't gamble. Checking behind on the turn is the worst advice I have ever heard. [/flame]

[Acid_Knight 2]

FAIL

I'm not one to call people out for post count or anything, but making posts like this is way out of line. You really need to establish yourself here before you start acting like an ass and even after that, you shouldn't do it.David is one of the most respected posters in the strat forum and you haven't really earned the right (nor does anybody) to post crap like this. Disagreeing is fine. Being an asshole isn't.

[Zach6668 513]

Ever heard of keeping the pot small with one pair?

[Acid_Knight 2]

As for the actual hand, I think checking behind on the turn is fearing monsters. Yeah, we get CRAI and it sucks beucase we're probably behind but we hopefully have more outs than just the flush draw. I know that it puts us in a bad spot where honestly, folding is correct assuming that we're behind most of the time and not getting the right odds to draw out on much of anything.It'd be good if there's some history that the villain is a bluffer becuase then I'd happy bet/call AI here, but as it is, this is usually a fold. Even given that, I think a check behind on the turn is pretty weak.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Ever heard of keeping the pot small with one pair?

I got a way for you to rebuild your bankroll.Offer to ban people at the rate of $1 per post in their post count.I got a cheap offer for you

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I'm not one to call people out for post count or anything, but making posts like this is way out of line. You really need to establish yourself here before you start acting like an ass and even after that, you shouldn't do it.David is one of the most respected posters in the strat forum and you haven't really earned the right (nor does anybody) to post crap like this. Disagreeing is fine. Being an asshole isn't.

I've failed myself for being stupid and I'll do it to others too. Don't catch feelings from a poker forum. And sure, call me out for post count as you continue to freepost

[David_Nicoson 1]

You still fail.The only thing he could have done better was not bet so hard... I would have prefered a half to 3/4 pot sized bet, but that's my own style.

He bet 1.70 into 2.20. 1.70/2.20 = 0.77. So the OP bet 2% more than the top of your range.

This guy is a calling station. Why are you afraid of folding out a calling stations worst hands? In case you didn't notice, calling stations like to call.

Hmmm, 1.76. OK, that's fairly passive assuming we're not including preflop numbers. 100 hands. Yeah, that means something. It is, however, completely consistent with calling out of position with an open-ended straight draw and checking the turn.

And you can't be afraid to bet at every f^$#@kin draw that completes in a heads up pot. This isn't a tournament where playing super-cautious has any argument. You have TP/TK in position with a redraw to the nuts versus an opponent that has show 0 aggression and is a calling station. If you can't bet in this situation you have redefined nit, you play scared poker, and you shouldn't gamble. Checking behind on the turn is the worst advice I have ever heard. [/flame]

Being super cautious doesn't have any special merit in tournaments, imho. I don't have any great quarrel with bet/call, but bet/fold is hard to defend, imho. The flush draw is just irrelevant in that case.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Being super cautious doesn't have any special merit in tournaments, imho. I don't have any great quarrel with bet/call, but bet/fold is hard to defend, imho. The flush draw is just irrelevant in that case.

now I see where you're coming from... but I'm still eh on the issue.It's ok to fold after making a bet. Sure it sucks, and people tend to get into that "ugh if I only checked behind I could have caught the flush" kind of mindset, but you're losing a lot of value by not betting here. I'm a bigger fan of checking behind on the river.And if the bet/fold line is a worry for metagame value... well... I like it when people don't respect my bets, because then they tend to go after you at the wrong time.Glad to see you didn't catch feelings

[NoSup4U 0]

I check behind on turn like never here unless its like some 10/6/1 donk that I always think has a set if he calls my flop bet.Mark

[David_Nicoson 1]

Suppose we bet the turn and the villain flat calls. Should the hero value bet on the river?Turn: ($2.20) 6 (2 players)SB checks, Hero bets $1.7, SB calls.River: ($5.60) T (2 players)SB checks, Hero ???

[David_Nicoson 1]

Nobody wanted to take that bait, but my point was that if we bet the turn and river with TPTK, then we're almost certainly getting stacked by a passively played straight. Everybody who bets the turn wants to bet the river as well, right?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Nobody wanted to take that bait, but my point was that if we bet the turn and river with TPTK, then we're almost certainly getting stacked by a passively played straight. Everybody who bets the turn wants to bet the river as well, right?

I'm a bigger fan of checking behind on the river

[David_Nicoson 1]

If we're only going to bet one street, why do you want to bet the turn and not the river? His only draw is to two pair or maybe trips, so I'm not too worried about giving a free card to that. A weak queen is more likely to call the river than the turn, because he knows his price to get to showdown. And we never have to fold the draw.