is it possible to fold this hand?

[BetItAll33 0]

BB has VP$IP of 48% after the first 70 hands at the table. Other than that, no read.Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is CO with Ad, Qs. 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.Flop: (10 SB) 2s, Qh, 9c (5 players)SB checks, BB bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.Turn: (7 BB) Tc (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, Hero calls.River: (11 BB) Kc (2 players)BB bets, Hero calls.Final Pot: 13 BB

[Vade 0]

Not really possible to fold this without it seeming weakNice hand, ya lost though

[cdddc75 0]

Tough fold. Any king, jack, set, or two clubs beats you.With second pair top kicker, I might reluctantly fold.Maybe.

[Absolute 0]

Posted: Mon, Apr 25th, 2005 2:20 Post subject: is it possible to fold this hand? Yes, you just click that fold button. Last I checked.

[BetItAll33 0]

Posted: Mon, Apr 25th, 2005 2:20 Post subject: is it possible to fold this hand? Yes, you just click that fold button. Last I checked.

When, exactly, would you click that fold button? :?

[RISEorFall 0]

Yes, you just click that fold button. Last I checked.

Yep. One card to a straight, 3 to a flush, and an overcard on board. Not much he's betting that you're beating right there. Where'd that fold button go?then again, pot may be big enough to warrant a call, but most of the time you're beat here.

[Absolute 0]

Posted: Mon, Apr 25th, 2005 2:20 Post subject: is it possible to fold this hand? Yes, you just click that fold button. Last I checked.

When, exactly, would you click that fold button? :?

Not anytime during this hand.Information on the player might change my mind.

[RISEorFall 0]

When, exactly, would you click that fold button? :?

His raise on the 10 is suspicious. 10-10 trips or K-J or J-8 straights seems probable. I still might 3-bet it and see. On the river there's not much you're ahead of. probably not the best line...I'm still working on my limit game.

[BeanGW 0]

BB has VP$IP of 48% after the first 70 hands at the table. Other than that' date=' no read.Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is CO with Ad, Qs. 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, MP2 calls.How much was your preflop raise? If it was less than a 3x BB, you could be up against a lot... by the number of callers it seems like it was a 2x BB. Just a guess. Flop: (10 SB) 2s, Qh, 9c (5 players)SB checks, BB bets, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls. BB bet here is actually more suspicious to me than the check raise on the turn. I wouldn't start out firing against that field from BB unless I had a set or two pair and wanted to push out drawing hands. If your preflop raise was 2xBB I would actually put the guy on either pocket 2's for the set or MAYBE J-10. I think if he had pocket 9's or better he may have reraised you preflop to thin out the field... but it really depends on his play.Turn: (7 BB) Tc (2 players)BB checks, Hero bets, Hero calls. The check raise here is interesting, considering the drawing possibilities. Although the flop doesn't give him reason to believe you are chasing a flush, and your bet after his check confirms this... he has to be worried about your straight. If he was going for the straight he'd just call. May as well fold right here. You pre-flop bet, post-flop bet, and bet again, and this guy is still firing back at you. He's not bluffing. Get out and save yourself some chips for later.River: (11 BB) Kc (2 players)BB bets, Hero calls. At this point BB bets, and you should just give it up if you haven't already... Unless you are certain he'd keep firing with a third button pair. You've shown him that you are in this pot, and are going to look him up. He is firing anyway, so he doesn't care. I'm putting him on the set of 2's or 9's, or he backed in to the straight with Q-J. If seeing his hand will provide you with info you can use later, OK call. Otherwise, not worth it.

[Swift_Psycho 1]

How much was your preflop raise? If it was less than a 3x BB, you could be up against a lot... by the number of callers it seems like it was a 2x BB. Just a guess. Yes, it was 2x the BB. That's generally all you can raise to in limit.

[JaysonWeber 0]

I dont put him on a striaght... and if he raised like a wildman with a flush draw on 4th well.. Keep playing with him. I guess I would pot him on 99 or... because his VP%IP is so high Q-10. If he beat you with the straight or flush betting like he did WOW, I'm real suprised.I don't think you can fold this.theres 12 in the pot at the end. 1-12 odds, can you beat this guy 1 in 12 times? I sadly click the call button, knowing I probobly lost. If he re-raised you on the flop what would you have done? I think you're stuck w/ this hand the way it was played.

[BeanGW 0]

How much was your preflop raise? If it was less than a 3x BB, you could be up against a lot... by the number of callers it seems like it was a 2x BB. Just a guess. Yes, it was 2x the BB. That's generally all you can raise to in limit.

Wooops... my bad... been playin too much PL/NL lately. Anyways, I still think he would have reraised you with 10's preflop if he's a LAG and wanted to clear out all the limpers and potential drawing hands...So I'm gonna stick with my prediction that he hit a set: 2's or 9's.

[wrto4556 0]

Without reads I can't find a fold anywhere...with reads, I can find a fold on the river.

[Absolute 0]

Without reads I can't find a fold anywhere...with reads, I can find a fold on the river.

word

[RISEorFall 0]

Without reads I can't find a fold anywhere...with reads, I can find a fold on the river.

I don't need a read here. I don't see what he could be check/raising the turn and then betting the river with here that you can beat, except a stone cold bluff. I think he might've made 2 pair with a 9-10. Even if not, I still don't see what he has that you can beat.

[akishore 0]

what??how can you even consider folding anywhere in this hand??well played...aseem

[BetItAll33 0]

Nachochip shows [ Qc, 9s ] two pairs, queens and nines.betitall33 doesn't show [ Ad, Qs ] a pair of queens.Nachochip wins $12.25 from the main pot with two pairs, queens and nines.

[RISEorFall 0]

what??how can you even consider folding anywhere in this hand??well played...aseem

Because there is 3 to a flush, 4 to a straight, and an overcard on the board and my opponent is betting into me on the river. I have 2nd pair. Except a stone cold bluff or a Q with a worse kicker, I don't see what he's betting at me with here. Unless the pot is big enough to call one more on the end, I don't see how 90% of the time you're not beat.

[akishore 0]

what??how can you even consider folding anywhere in this hand??well played...aseem

Because there is 3 to a flush, 4 to a straight, and an overcard on the board and my opponent is betting into me on the river. I have 2nd pair. Except a stone cold bluff or a Q with a worse kicker, I don't see what he's betting at me with here. Unless the pot is big enough to call one more on the end, I don't see how 90% of the time you're not beat.

i guess... but...the only possible folds would be on the turn or river, and i don't think either place is good. on the turn, you're getting 10-to-1, and i think you have some good outs. against 9-2, you have aces, queens, and tens. against Q-2, you have aces and nines. against Q-9, you have aces. it's only against a set to which you're drawing dead. it'll cost you 2 more bets to see a showdown, and i think you can safely call on the turn. if you can fold TPTK there, kudos, but i don't think i would.maybe that's a leak in my game, though. maybe i marry TPTK too much against aggression, but i'm not sure (i have engrained in my head the image of TPWK raising into me thinking i have nothing, and scooping a nice pot which i could have made bigger if i had kept raising, so maybe that's why i tend to call two bets to see a showdown).on the river, you're getting 12-to-1. it's just a plain crying call, i think.plus, don't forget--fish are either overly passive or overly aggressive in general, and since your read was that he's a LAG basically, i don't think you should give him too much credit necessarily. wouldn't he pull the same moves with Q-8?i don't know. i don't think i could fold anywhere in that hand.aseem

[wrto4556 0]

he check raised you on the big streets. Folding this river against an unkown player wouldn't even be that bad. I would just do it for sanity. It's obvious your drawing. maybe you can get lucky and suck out on two pair. With a read that this guy plays ABC poker, I call the turn and fold the river UI. Maybe even fold the turn if i'm playing good enough...like, hardly ever. :-)

[RISEorFall 0]

It was never stated that the opponent here was LAG or a fish. treat every player you run into straightforward until proven otherwise. I don't fold this on the turn either. In fact, I'd probably 3-bet the turn here. If he just called and then bet into me on the river I make a call mad as hell knowing that I probably lost the pot but knowing I probably should call. If he caps and then bets the river I fold pretty sure I'm beat. And like I said there may be enough money in the pot to call down anyway. However, the question was "is it possible to fold this?" and my answer is yes...on the river - when any conceivable draw and an overcard to your pair hit. There's not much he's betting into you that you can beat on the end.

[RISEorFall 0]

plus, don't forget--fish are either overly passive or overly aggressive in general, and since your read was that he's a LAG basically, i don't think you should give him too much credit necessarily. wouldn't he pull the same moves with Q-8?

I wanna examine this for a minute. Aside from we have no read on this guy from OP saying he was LAG or fish etc.... does his play make it seem that way? OK, he played Q-9 to a raise pre-flop. However, Q-9 can be a really good drawing hand (although better if it's suited) and he already has 3 people in the pot before him and one more probably coming along too. He's big blind so he's already in for half the bet. On the flop he hit 2 pair and bets out and gets raised. The other players fold so it's back to him. he just calls. If he 3-bets here he may not much more action from you on the bigger streets. On the turn he check raises and gets a call, and then on the end he bets out and gets a call. I don't think a fish makes these plays. The Q-9 offsuit is questionable, but the way he played it post-flop leads me to think he's a pretty good player. Opinions and arguements welcome, I just wanted to examine this because at first, he definately seems like a fishy.

[BetItAll33 0]

my only read on this guy was gametime+ telling me that his vpip was at 48% after around 70 hands. [edit:typo]

[BeanGW 0]

plus, don't forget--fish are either overly passive or overly aggressive in general, and since your read was that he's a LAG basically, i don't think you should give him too much credit necessarily. wouldn't he pull the same moves with Q-8?

I wanna examine this for a minute. Aside from we have no read on this guy from OP saying he was LAG or fish etc.... does his play make it seem that way? OK, he played Q-9 to a raise pre-flop. However, Q-9 can be a really good drawing hand (although better if it's suited) and he already has 3 people in the pot before him and one more probably coming along too. He's big blind so he's already in for half the bet. On the flop he hit 2 pair and bets out and gets raised. The other players fold so it's back to him. he just calls. If he 3-bets here he may not much more action from you on the bigger streets. On the turn he check raises and gets a call, and then on the end he bets out and gets a call. I don't think a fish makes these plays. The Q-9 offsuit is questionable, but the way he played it post-flop leads me to think he's a pretty good player. Opinions and arguements welcome, I just wanted to examine this because at first, he definately seems like a fishy.

Agreed. His VPIP of 48% says A) He could be playing anything preflop and B) He could be playing even more than that if he gets to see it with only one bet from the BB.Also... he's not really worried on the turn about the flush because of the rainbow flop. He's only playing against the possible straight draw or a set (somewhat unlikely since he's got two of the cards that would have been part of the set).Even if he's up against the straight he could even top that if another 9 or Q falls on the river. His check on the turn was probably both with the intention of check raising, and for the purpose of gaining information as to whether or not he was up against a hand that was already made, or a drawing hand.The bet into him signified the made hand, and he figured at that point that his hand was better.I think it was a pretty solid play.