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Drowning On The River


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#41 David_Nicoson

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:00 AM

View PostNaismith, on Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 2:48 PM, said:

Whatever the villain has, I think we can all agree that he played it horribly!

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:53 AM, said:

Oh, I was the villain by the way.
So is Naismith the hero?
QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#42 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:08 AM

View PostDavid_Nicoson, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 8:00 AM, said:

So is Naismith the hero?
No, but he knew what really happened in the hand, so he was just being an ass.

#43 David_Nicoson

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:14 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:56 AM, said:

A3 would definitely be in my range here if it were suited.The big aces are NOT in my range since I'm really never going to float that flop OOP with that hand.The QT suited gutshot isn't in the range for me either.And lastly, FWIW, I'm not really gonna c/r the turn with the J :club: x :D in this case.
That leaves just 5 or 6 combinations. The hero's turn call is a mistake if he knows that information.
QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#44 David_Nicoson

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:21 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:53 AM, said:

Now what am I holding?
Because you posted it, I'll say T :club: 9 :D . If I know I'm playing Acid Knight, I will pay off this river, at any rate.
QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#45 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:30 AM

View PostDavid_Nicoson, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 8:14 AM, said:

That leaves just 5 or 6 combinations. The hero's turn call is a mistake if he knows that information.
Irregardless of what I have, I feel that it was a terrible call with the J8 on both the turn AND river. Since he knew nothing about my play except what he'd seen at the table, there was no reason to think I'd gotten out of line anywhere and especially not to the extent that I'd make an elaborate semibluff like this, which is obviously all that he can beat. I feel the call on the turn is made better if he's folding to river shoves, but it's still bad.I just feel that without some previous history that someone can make a play like this, it's best to just give them credit for the hand they're repping and fold if you can't beat it. I mean, everything about his river call says he knows it's a bad call, which just confirms that it's a spot that he shoudln't be calling in.

#46 tskillz187

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:35 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 8:30 AM, said:

Irregardless of what I have, I feel that it was a terrible call with the J8 on both the turn AND river. Since he knew nothing about my play except what he'd seen at the table, there was no reason to think I'd gotten out of line anywhere and especially not to the extent that I'd make an elaborate semibluff like this, which is obviously all that he can beat. I feel the call on the turn is made better if he's folding to river shoves, but it's still bad.I just feel that without some previous history that someone can make a play like this, it's best to just give them credit for the hand they're repping and fold if you can't beat it. I mean, everything about his river call says he knows it's a bad call, which just confirms that it's a spot that he shoudln't be calling in.
I think most people agree with you. But at the table in real time it's a tough fold to make. It's especially scary to me once I correctly peg him on J8, to fire that river because I'm not all that confident most villains will fold J8 there. I would play this hand the same with set, top two and be hopeful to get called by J8.
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#47 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:40 AM

View Posttskillz187, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 8:35 AM, said:

I think most people agree with you. But at the table in real time it's a tough fold to make. It's especially scary to me once I correctly peg him on J8, to fire that river because I'm not all that confident most villains will fold J8 there. I would play this hand the same with set, top two and be hopeful to get called by J8.
It shoudln't be any tougher at the table than on the forums here. He goes over the hand. He realizes that he really can't beat anything here except an elaborate bluff. He should fold. He knows this. He decides to call anyway.I mean, the thing is, if you're calling with J8 here, knowing what my range is, then technically you should also be calling with JTo or a pair of 6s. You'd instafold with either of those hands, yet the really have the same value as J8 here since they beat any hand I might have been semibluffing with on the turn and they lose to any real hand that I'm value shoving.

#48 David_Nicoson

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:46 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 11:40 AM, said:

I mean, the thing is, if you're calling with J8 here, knowing what my range is, then technically you should also be calling with JTo or a pair of 6s. You'd instafold with either of those hands, yet the really have the same value as J8 here since they beat any hand I might have been semibluffing with on the turn and they lose to any real hand that I'm value shoving.
It's mostly the same as calling with 66, but then the villain's overs are outs as well.
QUOTE(bleacherbum3 @ Friday, February 29th, 2008, 3:28 AM) View Post
I'm invincible. Like Super Mario when he gets that star thingy.


#49 dms26

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:51 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 11:40 AM, said:

It shoudln't be any tougher at the table than on the forums here. He goes over the hand. He realizes that he really can't beat anything here except an elaborate bluff. He should fold. He knows this. He decides to call anyway.I mean, the thing is, if you're calling with J8 here, knowing what my range is, then technically you should also be calling with JTo or a pair of 6s. You'd instafold with either of those hands, yet the really have the same value as J8 here since they beat any hand I might have been semibluffing with on the turn and they lose to any real hand that I'm value shoving.
I think a lot of players are going to make this call, regardless of your image. I'm sure you play some good players at this level, but you're also playing because these players do make calls when they shouldn't right? Was villain someone that you do know? If not, how can you know that he goes through any type of thought process like this? His thought process could be "hey I have 2 pair, he might have a better hand but I'll never know unless I call."
QUOTE (CozMyn @ Sunday, March 8th, 2009, 5:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i tried to talk here about that program, the RNG , not to talk about when to accept all in without to see flop.
You can accept all in whenever you want, or whenever you feel lucky, but in virtual room's is not like in reality. In reality anything is possible... in virtual rooms you can be "the one" who knows the future, or who can change the future.

#50 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:05 AM

View Postdms26, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 8:51 AM, said:

I think a lot of players are going to make this call, regardless of your image. I'm sure you play some good players at this level, but you're also playing because these players do make calls when they shouldn't right? Was villain someone that you do know? If not, how can you know that he goes through any type of thought process like this? His thought process could be "hey I have 2 pair, he might have a better hand but I'll never know unless I call."
He seemed to play well in the 2 hours I was playing with him.

#51 tskillz187

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:18 AM

If you can't honestly come to the conclusion that people play better theoretically than they do in reality you're going to be very grumpy. It would take a very solid 2-5 player to not let ego get in the way and properly process the info you are sending in real time.
Naismith (2:56:11 PM): fuckerflakeoutonmystakingnowmakingmillions

#52 dbl_j_22

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:23 AM

I hate "Oh, you have me beat, I call"The thing I love most about this game is making a read and sticking with it and having some sort of reasons for that read, whether they happen to be completely wrong or not. So I hate it when someone views your complete line, thinks for sure they are beat, and then pays off your bluff.... well Iguess i dont hate it when Im holding the nuts, but you know what I mean.I was going to respond again with saying I thought about villian's line even more, and without a read I can't put in a call on the river, since we know you are the villian, I would say you played this hand like a set of 3's or something big pretty perfectly. Now, I would admire the hero call if in fact he did it because he gave you a fair enough of a chance of semi bluffing, or he picked up a tell on you, but from the way it sounds, he really thought he was beat which is a poor way to play the hand. I only really advocate calling if we can put you on a bluff enough of the times. All in all, I really like how you played this semi bluff, and I've done that many times before to, I'm still not even close to where I need to be in bluffing my opponents because I've had many times where i put them on a weak uncallable hand, and I really believe I can push them off their hand, but then they call, making my read of them off because even if you read their hand is weak, you also need the read that they are capable of laying it down. And from your read on him in the op he seemed like he was capable, but Iguess he wasn't. tough break man.
Formerly Blink20 on this forum, but Ive been away for a while, and now I'd rather use my online poker name from stars as the name here.


#53 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:42 AM

View Postdbl_j_22, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 9:23 AM, said:

I hate "Oh, you have me beat, I call"
I love it. Even if I'm bluffing, I still like it because it means they're an idiot.Also, who said I lost this hand? Nobody knows what I have.Tim I'm not saying that people play as well in real time as they do in theory. I'm just saying that this one isn't that hard to figure out. He knew he thought he was beat when he called. That means he should've laid it down.

#54 tskillz187

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:53 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 9:42 AM, said:

Tim
I told you that shit in confidence!orDon't ever use that tone with me again.I can't decide which reply I like more.
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#55 tskillz187

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:10 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 9:42 AM, said:

I'm not saying that people play as well in real time as they do in theory. I'm just saying that this one isn't that hard to figure out. He knew he thought he was beat when he called. That means he should've laid it down.
I don't even think I agree with this. He was getting 3:1 on the call as either you or Cobalt pointed out. I still don't agree with Cobalt/you that once you call the turn you reevaluate river, the river bricked, nothing has changed. Calling on the turn with the hopes that Villain checks river to you is playing very poorly, I mean that's the ideal person to be playing against. Call, Call, Fold. "He had to have it to fire the third time." Those people are very easy to convince you have a hand.Obviously you look to get info on the river or if it completes the draw you can fold, but once it blanks barring a great physical read (one that I can't even describe because I don't know what it is) it's an autocall with J8.Just because he said something like "I'm beat." Doesn't mean he's sure he's beat his actions and pot odds here certainly speak louder (to his true feelings) than his words.
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#56 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:33 AM

What do you think I had here?

#57 tskillz187

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:37 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:33 AM, said:

What do you think I had here?
A8.And in a crazy twist for the whole forum, I was Villain!!! (sw)
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#58 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:40 AM

View Posttskillz187, on Monday, September 10th, 2007, 10:37 AM, said:

A8.
Not A8, although the hand would've played the same.Not T :club: 9 :D either.

#59 tskillz187

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:43 AM

View PostAcid_Knight, on Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 12:36 PM, said:

Yeah, unless it turned out to be some elaborate bluff since it has the forum and the hero fairly convinced that it beats J8.
Judging from this it's probably something like 45o and you bluffed the gutter and got there though :club:
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#60 Acid_Knight

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:47 AM

View PostNaismith, on Sunday, September 9th, 2007, 11:48 AM, said:

Whatever the villain has, I think we can all agree that he played it horribly!

View Posttskillz187, on Sunday, September 10th, 2007, 10:37 AM, said:

And in a crazy twist for the whole forum, I was Villain!!! (sw)





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