High Blinds, Shoving Range

[simo_8ball 1]

Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem TournamentBlinds: t200/t4005 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: t1070CO: t1835Hero: t1975SB: t3710BB: t4910Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with X-X2 folds, Hero shoves with what range?

[monix 0]

Any two cards.

[StupidKid 0]

I swear there's a graph spreadsheet about this on 4....But this maybe for MTTs.I shove ATC in this spot though also

[simo_8ball 1]

I actually shoved with 4 2 which I didn't like, but I thought I should double check that it was correct.I think I'm playing near perfect with push/fold decisions, but it's annoying when opponents are willing to call 90% of their stack, and at times call allin with hands like JTs and K5o.

[pdr87 0]

Good spot to center your chips. 72o - AA.

[Yahkin 0]

Play to money, then play to win. We can potentially fold to the money at this point, so I'm not pushing ATC. I usually go top40 in this situation. 44+, Std connectors 78+, Std gappers, 97+, Most suited hands with a facecard, and a few other pet hands.Edit: And I will call a shorty push in the next two hands with top 30.

[jmbreslin 0]

I actually shoved with 4 2 which I didn't like, but I thought I should double check that it was correct.I think I'm playing near perfect with push/fold decisions, but it's annoying when opponents are willing to call 90% of their stack, and at times call allin with hands like JTs and K5o.

Doesn't this suggest that you have to adjust your pushing range?Yahkin, does top 40 really include suited connectors down to 87 and suited gappers down to 97?

[Yahkin 0]

Doesn't this suggest that you have to adjust your pushing range?Yahkin, does top 40 really include suited connectors down to 87 and suited gappers down to 97?

Yep.J7s+, J8o+, Q8o+, K7o+, A3o+, and any suited Ace or King as well.

[simo_8ball 1]

Doesn't this suggest that you have to adjust your pushing range?

Yes, but with 5xbb left, I think I can safely shove any two there (they don't call all the time that light).Even if the blinds have an absurdly wide calling range of [ 22+,A2s+,K7s+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,K7o+,QTo+,JTo ] (pairs, A2+, K7+, and any two broadway) I'm still only getting called 50% of the time, and I'm still 30% with 32o when they call.0.5 x 2600 + 0.5 x 0.3 x 4300 = 1945.(4300 = average pot size when called) So, worst case scenario with my worst hand I'm about breakeven. Tighten the ranges to anything reasonable and I'm good to shove any two.

[WhatArunAA 0]

Play to money, then play to win. We can potentially fold to the money at this point, so I'm not pushing ATC. I usually go top40 in this situation. 44+, Std connectors 78+, Std gappers, 97+, Most suited hands with a facecard, and a few other pet hands.Edit: And I will call a shorty push in the next two hands with top 30.

LOL.. no offense.. but you bubble alot don't you?

[StupidKid 0]

Doesn't this suggest that you have to adjust your pushing range?Yahkin, does top 40 really include suited connectors down to 87 and suited gappers down to 97?

Pokerstove will help you with Q's like this...Download here

[pdr87 0]

Play to money, then play to win. We can potentially fold to the money at this point, so I'm not pushing ATC. I usually go top40 in this situation. 44+, Std connectors 78+, Std gappers, 97+, Most suited hands with a facecard, and a few other pet hands.Edit: And I will call a shorty push in the next two hands with top 30.

This kind of thinking gives him lots more fold equity at this spot.

[Yahkin 0]

LOL.. no offense.. but you bubble alot don't you?

I make my moves with 5 left, when the big stacks calling ranges are tighter. I tighten to top 40 on the bubble because everyone wants to make the hero call of the shorty push to get in the money.As you can see, this play style nets me more thirds than firsts though, so there is room for adjustment.

[simo_8ball 1]

everyone wants to make the hero call of the shorty push to get in the money.

I'm not so sure of that. Sometimes they will call light, but you need to keep enough chips to maintain at least a little fold equity.Also, your image isn't showing.

[Yahkin 0]

Also, your image isn't showing.

Hmm, I can see it from multiple locations.But here's the breakdown for 9 man tournies:1 - 472 - 443 - 584 - 385 - 546 - 357 - 328 - 219 - 19

[jmbreslin 0]

I probably take a similar approach to Yahkin in terms of tightening up on the bubble but I play the $1.20's where patience and tightness are real virtues. Interestingly, though, my placement breakdown is a bit different:1 - 312 - 583 - 364 - 445 - 266 - 34And trailing off at 7-9.Now I just need to work on my HU play...

[simo_8ball 1]

I can see the image now. Go figure.This is mine:1 - 12 = 12.5%2 - 11 = 11.5%3 - 21 = 21.8%4 - 12 = 12.5%5 - 8 = 8.3%6 - 11 = 11.5%7 - 8 = 8.3%8 - 7 = 7.3%9 - 6 = 6.3%Obv. smaller sample size, but it seems fairly obvious I'm not getting 5th as often, but I am getting 4th more often.

[Yahkin 0]

Interesting. For statistical purposes I will assume they are all the same buyin:Simo - ITM 45.83% | ROI 15.06%Yahkin - ITM 42.82% | ROI 13.56%Would need jm's full stats to compare.

[jmbreslin 0]

jm - ITM 48.64% / ROI 17.06% (for $1.20 STTs)

[simo_8ball 1]

Interesting. For statistical purposes I will assume they are all the same buyin

Almost all are from the tourney challenge I have with bdc30 and rogerwilco, and they are almost all $11+$1 turbos done in batches of either 4, 6 or 9.

[vbnautilus 49]

Yes, but with 5xbb left, I think I can safely shove any two there (they don't call all the time that light).Even if the blinds have an absurdly wide calling range of [ 22+,A2s+,K7s+,QTs+,JTs,A2o+,K7o+,QTo+,JTo ] (pairs, A2+, K7+, and any two broadway) I'm still only getting called 50% of the time, and I'm still 30% with 32o when they call.0.5 x 2600 + 0.5 x 0.3 x 4300 = 1945.(4300 = average pot size when called) So, worst case scenario with my worst hand I'm about breakeven. Tighten the ranges to anything reasonable and I'm good to shove any two.

Or loosen it a bit and you are -EV (e.g. he could call with Q9o). I think in turbos FE goes way down because people know that you are shoving light. Also, in this case the BB is the largest stack, and with only that information the most likely to call. I think shoving ATC is an unnecessary risk here, I'd like to have something to shove with.

[Cappy37 0]

jm - ITM 48.64% / ROI 17.06% (for $1.20 STTs)

considering your paying double rake for micro, 17% is a very nice accomplishment!

[simo_8ball 1]

Or loosen it a bit and you are -EV (e.g. he could call with Q9o). I think in turbos FE goes way down because people know that you are shoving light. Also, in this case the BB is the largest stack, and with only that information the most likely to call. I think shoving ATC is an unnecessary risk here, I'd like to have something to shove with.

You really think both blinds are calling with such an absurdly wide range? There are times when QTs decides to spite call, but it's not that often. People will fold weak aces, weak kings and 22-44. As for a more realistic average range, I think [ 55+,A5s+,KJs+,A7o+,KJo+ ] is about right. That's 16% of hands. .84^2 = 70% fold equity.With such a range it is a blatant shove.

[Cappy37 0]

You really think both blinds are calling with such an absurdly wide range? There are times when QTs decides to spite call, but it's not that often. People will fold weak aces, weak kings and 22-44. As for a more realistic average range, I think [ 55+,A5s+,KJs+,A7o+,KJo+ ] is about right. That's 16% of hands. .84^2 = 70% fold equity.With such a range it is a blatant shove.

Edit: I'm a moron.Move along people, there's nothing to see here.

[simo_8ball 1]

Plus you have to factor once you get down below 40 players, your average M is ~4, and usually ~3. It's *that* dicey.

These are $11 turbo 9man sitngos. They are always below 40 players.