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#21 Emptyeye

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:27 PM

XXEddie said:

most annoying plays at a table1_dry side pot bluff2) folding for fear of being outdrawn3) folding, with the possibility to check
#1 and #3 piss me off. RANDOM FUN FACT about #2 however: In Omaha, it is sometimes the correct play to fold after flopping the nuts. This usually applies in O8 when you hit the nut low, though flopping nut straights is another great way to lose chips fast.

#22 Kendren

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:31 PM

Quote

Thanks. I could easily post under a different name if this crap really bothered me but it doesn't so go on calling me a moron, I'm going to continue posting thoughts on here. Oh wait...this isn't a learning forum? I forgot, it's a Sklansky-bot's-R-us forum. Whoops.
Public schools in America are learning forums too, but that doesn't mean they should spew stupidity either. Oh, wait, bad analogy. :wink:

#23 cdddc75

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:38 PM

JFarrell20 said:

XXEddie said:

most annoying plays at a table3) folding, with the possibility to check
How is this annoying??? What's the point of sticking around on this flop in a 5-way pot with K6? The same guys who tell me not to complete the SB here tell me to "stick in the hand cuz you might end up winning it" LOL.If I turn a King I still don't like the hand and I'm not prepared to invest in it. If I turn a 6, I'm even less likely to invest in it. There is no way I will be holding this hand as a winner by the end of the river, unless I go for a stone-cold bluff, which I have no reason to do right now.Why do I want to check here when folding might mean two others are more likely to go up against eachother in a big pot?
Having said all that, why did you bother to complete from the small blind in the first place? You completed in the hopes of a KK6 flop or something wild like that, but can't be bothered to stick around for free?The reason why we link posts from your past is to remind everyone that you are the least credible poster on this forum.
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#24 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:41 PM

Kendren said:

Quote

Thanks. I could easily post under a different name if this crap really bothered me but it doesn't so go on calling me a moron, I'm going to continue posting thoughts on here. Oh wait...this isn't a learning forum? I forgot, it's a Sklansky-bot's-R-us forum. Whoops.
Public schools in America are learning forums too, but that doesn't mean they should spew stupidity either. Oh, wait, bad analogy. :wink:
You should read some historical books. Most brilliant ideas (I'm not implying mine was) are initially deemed stupid by those who can't imagine. Oh, you live in a town where silverware is the #1 industry...hmm, try driving to Nashville and looking for books. And until you bring some ideas to this forum, Censor Off.

#25 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:44 PM

cdddc75 said:

JFarrell20 said:

XXEddie said:

most annoying plays at a table3) folding, with the possibility to check
How is this annoying??? What's the point of sticking around on this flop in a 5-way pot with K6? The same guys who tell me not to complete the SB here tell me to "stick in the hand cuz you might end up winning it" LOL.If I turn a King I still don't like the hand and I'm not prepared to invest in it. If I turn a 6, I'm even less likely to invest in it. There is no way I will be holding this hand as a winner by the end of the river, unless I go for a stone-cold bluff, which I have no reason to do right now.Why do I want to check here when folding might mean two others are more likely to go up against eachother in a big pot?
Having said all that, why did you bother to complete from the small blind in the first place? You completed in the hopes of a KK6 flop or something wild like that, but can't be bothered to stick around for free?The reason why we link posts from your past is to remind everyone that you are the least credible poster on this forum.
LOL. You've been here a month-and-a-half. What have I said since you've gotten here that has made me "not credible"? What have you said that makes you so much more credible than I?Yes, I completed in hoped of flopping something sick like KKK, 666, KK6, or 66K. I didn't. Now you tell me why how you're going to play this when a King falls on the turn, and 4 people behind you. (Keep in mind you are well-above-average in chipsize and have no reason to invest in a mediocre hand).

#26 Emptyeye

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:45 PM

Yeah, in this particular instance, you could just fold pre-flop and accomplish the same thing about telling people "don't worry about me, I'm out of your way, knock yourselves and each other out". Really, what were you hoping for on the flop? KK6? K6x? 666? And as others have already said, if you're just going to fold without considering the possibility of a free turn card (And in an unraised pot, your king may well be good if it hits), why are you even calling in the first place?But to answer your question, generally, the only way someone exits the tournament is if two people both hit the flop fairly hard and push in (Which your K6 is irrelevant to), or someone has balls of steel and tries to bluff and gets picked off (And someone is only marginally less likely to try a bluff at 4 people than at 3).So in short, I don't see what the point is.

#27 gobears

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:47 PM

cdddc75 said:

Having said all that, why did you bother to complete from the small blind in the first place? You completed in the hopes of a KK6 flop or something wild like that, but can't be bothered to stick around for free?
Exactly - fold K rag even in the SB.But since you're in the hand now; it's possible that the hand gets checked down after the flop and you get to see a free card. If a k or 6 hits on the turn or river, check it down and if you're lucky, you can take down the small pot. Fold to any bet as it's to easy to be dominated.Much better then folding and hoping that two guys get into it.
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#28 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:49 PM

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:

#29 gobears

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:51 PM

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
Check it down; fold to any bet
Work to live, don't live to work - Todd Harrison

#30 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:52 PM

gobears said:

cdddc75 said:

Having said all that, why did you bother to complete from the small blind in the first place? You completed in the hopes of a KK6 flop or something wild like that, but can't be bothered to stick around for free?
If a k or 6 hits on the turn or river, check it down and if you're lucky, you can take down the small pot. Fold to any bet as it's to easy to be dominated..
If a K or 6 falls on the turn and I check, there's no way in H.ell it's getting checked around again. Someone else will at least represent the King, and I would have no reason to not believe them. It's not worth looking them up. There's no way in h.ell I'm going to take this pot down aside from a bluff, which I don't want to do at this point in the tourney."Fold to any bet as it's too easy to be dominated."Thank you.

#31 cdddc75

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:52 PM

JFarrell20 said:

LOL. You've been here a month-and-a-half. What have I said since you've gotten here that has made me "not credible"? What have you said that makes you so much more credible than I?Yes, I completed in hoped of flopping something sick like KKK, 666, KK6, or 66K. I didn't. Now you tell me why how you're going to play this when a King falls on the turn, and 4 people behind you. (Keep in mind you are well-above-average in chipsize and have no reason to invest in a mediocre hand).
I've been registered for a month and a half. I'm by no means a poker genius, but I would like to think I can at least engage in useful discussions. If nothing else, I like to do others a favor by pointing out when someone is clueless about what he has written.If a king falls on the turn, I bet half pot to see if it is good. Top pair garbage kicker just might be enough to take this uncoordinated board. Of course, I'm not smart enough to flame one of the most proven players on Full Tilt, so my opinion might be crap. I do know that folding on the flop is indisputably -EV. Can you tell me how having one player eliminated and a bigger stack at the table helps you out? I would rather take chips myself then count on others to do the dirty work.
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#32 Emptyeye

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:52 PM

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
Easy. I fire at it and see what happens. Like I said above, there's a decent chance my king will be good if it hits. I don't see what's so hard about this. As to "I have no reason to get involved with a mediocre hand", that's exactly why you fold this pre-flop.

#33 gobears

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:55 PM

Emptyeye said:

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
Easy. I fire at it and see what happens. Like I said above, there's a decent chance my king will be good if it hits. I don't see what's so hard about this. As to "I have no reason to get involved with a mediocre hand", that's exactly why you fold this pre-flop.
This works also - fire out a probe bet and if you get re-raised hard, then get out. You might also take it down.That's why playing K rag stinks - you get into these type of tough situations.
Work to live, don't live to work - Todd Harrison

#34 cdddc75

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:57 PM

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
What would you have done if a king had fallen on the flop...folded without a check too? Good players would obviously bet out a king on the turn and play from there.I'm simply amazed that you can't accept it when people point out the flaws in your silly theories, after you ask for said input.Poker Tracker classifies loose, passive players as fish for a reason...
"I'd root for Hellmuth against my Mother if I knew Phil was holding the Krablar." -- BigDMcGee

"Poker is 98% luck, I'm trying to make it 97.8% luck. " -- JFarrell20, deported village idiot

#35 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:59 PM

gobears said:

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
Check it down; fold to any bet
Thanks for proving my point. It's futile staying in as there is a 99.9% chance someone fires out on the turn behind my check. And firing out on the turn isn't really my cup of tea either. I'm sure it will cut down the field but why fire out if I'm so easily dominated? No reason to. Have to check/fold to any turn bet, which is an almost certainty.So why stay in on the flop???

#36 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:03 PM

Emptyeye said:

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
I don't see what's so hard about this. As to "I have no reason to get involved with a mediocre hand", that's exactly why you fold this pre-flop.
But now you're willing to invest in it if a King falls? Why? You have 4100 in chips. The pot is big, which means if you fire out on the turn any one of the remaining three could move over-the-top of you on a bluff just to try to take down a large pot. I'm not saying this will happen often, but why get involved here/now?

#37 cdddc75

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:04 PM

JFarrell20 said:

gobears said:

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
Check it down; fold to any bet
Thanks for proving my point. It's futile staying in as there is a 99.9% chance someone fires out on the turn behind my check. And firing out on the turn isn't really my cup of tea either. I'm sure it will cut down the field but why fire out if I'm so easily dominated? No reason to. Have to check/fold to any turn bet, which is an almost certainty.So why stay in on the flop???
Would you check/fold if the king was the highest card on the flop? If so, you definitely should not have completed preflop.If not, why would you check/fold this particular hand with a king on the turn?Check/folding a king after completing with K6 off is WEAK.
"I'd root for Hellmuth against my Mother if I knew Phil was holding the Krablar." -- BigDMcGee

"Poker is 98% luck, I'm trying to make it 97.8% luck. " -- JFarrell20, deported village idiot

#38 cdddc75

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:05 PM

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

JFarrell20 said:

Emptyeye said:

So in short, I don't see what the point is.
Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake, how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:
I don't see what's so hard about this. As to "I have no reason to get involved with a mediocre hand", that's exactly why you fold this pre-flop.
But now you're willing to invest in it if a King falls? Why? You have 4100 in chips. The pot is big, which means if you fire out on the turn any one of the remaining three could move over-the-top of you on a bluff just to try to take down a large pot. I'm not saying this will happen often, but why get involved here/now?
Because my pathetic preflop odds of winning with K6 off are no longer pathetic.Do you understand the concept of expected value?
"I'd root for Hellmuth against my Mother if I knew Phil was holding the Krablar." -- BigDMcGee

"Poker is 98% luck, I'm trying to make it 97.8% luck. " -- JFarrell20, deported village idiot

#39 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:08 PM

[quote name='"cdddc75"][quote name='JFarrell20][quote=Emptyeye]So in short' date=' I don't see what the point is.[/quote']Putting aside the fact that you mistakenly believe my completion in this pot was a mistake' date=' [i']how do you play this if a King falls on the turn with 4 people behind you?[/i]I've posed this query to two people now and I'm interested to see how you two try to reason the turn play in this scenario! :club:[/quote]What would you have done if a king had fallen on the flop...folded without a check too? When did I ever say I'd fold without a check when my king hits? If I flop a King I'm not even firing out (not with 4 people behind me). I'm praying for a check-around and hoping to improve on the turn. No need to get involved here.Good players would obviously bet out a king on the turn and play from there.Have fun getting raised by the player with K7, K8, K9, KT, KJ, KQ, KK, KA, or better.Seriously, have fun.quote]

#40 Emptyeye

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 03:10 PM

JFarrell20 said:

But now you're willing to invest in it if a King falls? Why? You have 4100 in chips. The pot is big, which means if you fire out on the turn any one of the remaining three could move over-the-top of you on a bluff just to try to take down a large pot. I'm not saying this will happen often, but why get involved here/now?
No, I would make the proper play of folding it preflop and not putting myself in this situation in the first place. But given this hypothetical, why should I not try to get a free card? Why should I not fire a bullet if I get that free card and it helps me? If you've been playing solid poker to this point, it's quite possible your opponents will notice this and give you credit for more than top pair/trash kicker. Given you completed with this random trash, the odds aren't as bad as you think that everyone else has random trash worse than your K6.




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