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your thoughts on this idea...


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#1 JFarrell20

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:40 PM

This was a hand I played in a NL 3-table SNG. My thinking is that I'd have been better off folding instead of checking. Almost always you should check even if you plan on folding to a min. bet but here I think it's better to fold. Lemme know what you think.#Game No : 1948180760 ***** Hand History for Game 1948180760 *****NL Hold'em Trny:11609124 Level:7 Blinds (100/200) - Sunday, April 24, 23:49:01 EDT 2005Table Three-Table(318135) Table #1 (Real Money)Seat 9 is the buttonTotal number of players : 8 Seat 1: JFarrell20 ( $4170 )Seat 2: ridesab ( $4085 )Seat 3: dcon374 ( $3405 )Seat 4: murachi ( $1935 )Seat 5: oopiggyoo ( $1030 )Seat 6: allinallin12 ( $1763 )Seat 8: dancingnancy ( $13092 )Seat 9: MIDDLEIT ( $520 )Trny:11609124 Level:7Blinds (100/200)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to JFarrell20 [ 6c Kh ]dcon374: you had medcon374 folds.murachi calls [200].oopiggyoo calls [200].allinallin12 folds.dancingnancy calls [200].MIDDLEIT folds.JFarrell20 calls [100].I call in SB. 3 limpers in this hand is a lot more than usual.ridesab checks.** Dealing Flop ** [ Jh, 4s, 8s ]Nasty flop in a 5-way pot. First instinct to check but I think it's better to fold so that the 4 people left don't have to "worry" about me still being behind them to act. If I fold here there's more of a chance this pot grows and someone gets KO'd.JFarrell20 checks.ridesab checks.murachi checks.oopiggyoo is all-In [830]dancingnancy folds.In a grossly exaggerated example I'd imagine that Dancingnancy may call here had I folded b/c he'd only have 2 people behind him instead of 3. In other words I can't tell the table "Im folding.. someone call him" cuz that's downright cheating but if I fold right off the bat that's not "cheating" but it's indirectly letting the table know that they have 1 less player to worry about. I hope I'm explaining this right. In this case it's not a big deal b/c I highly doubt dancingnancy calls here even if he "only" has 2 ppl behind him. But I hope you get my point. I'd much rather see 1 guy call this all-in than see the pot be taken down uncontested. In a cash game this play doesn't matter whatsoever, unless you are deliberately calluding with others at the table. But in a tourney, I think it should be a part of every player's strategy.JFarrell20 folds.ridesab folds.murachi folds.oopiggyoo does not show cards.oopiggyoo wins 1830 chipsGame #1948187254 starts.

#2 RonBurgundy

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:43 PM

the small possibility that what you're talking about happens is negated by the times its checked around and you river trips or 2 pair

#3 JFarrell20

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 09:45 PM

RonBurgundy said:

the small possibility that what you're talking about happens is negated by the times its checked around and you river trips or 2 pair
I see your point but I disagree.

#4 Swift_Psycho

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Posted 24 April 2005 - 10:13 PM

The only time I might do it would be if I had like 4-3 and the board was K-Q-J or something like that. You have an overcard, so I still wouldn't do it. I dunno if I'd ever do it, but I wouldn't do it there.

#5 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 06:33 AM

Swift_Psycho said:

The only time I might do it would be if I had like 4-3 and the board was K-Q-J or something like that.  You have an overcard, so I still wouldn't do it.  I dunno if I'd ever do it, but I wouldn't do it there.
But does what I'm saying at least make some sense? In a tourney sometimes its better to "let the table know" that you arent calling any bet after you check just by folding when you have the option to check. It's not cheating b/c it doesn't directly help a particular opponent of which I have prior knowlege, but it can help me, in that, two opponents may be more likely to go up against eachother in this pot instead of one of them winning it without a fight. I do have an overcard, but I think seeing an opponent get knocked out is worth a lot more than my chances of winning this pot.

#6 KDawgCometh

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 07:02 AM

here's an even better idea, don't complete with K6o in teh SB, then you wouldn't have to even give us this trite hand to possibly ponder. of course you weren't gonna call him with the crap that was your hand, and unless someone else had anything decent then they would've called too
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#7 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 07:12 AM

KDawgCometh said:

here's an even better idea, don't complete with K6o in teh SB, then you wouldn't have to even give us this trite hand to possibly ponder. of course you weren't gonna call him with the crap that was your hand, and unless someone else had anything decent then they would've called too
Normally I don't complete there, but with 3 limpers, and a guy in the BB who hasn't raised much, I figured I could get in cheap and maybe land a lucky pot. If 2 people limp there I'm not even completing. With 3 limpers, I think it's worth it. If the BB is more aggressive than I don't limp.Calling 100 to possibly win 900 (when I have over 4K in chips) isn't a bad play at all. Sure, if I flop just a K or a 6, I'm not happy and I'll probably give it up, but if I land two pairs or better I'm feeling pretty good.

#8 rog

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 08:00 AM

You think K6o wins 10% of the time here? I dont think so.

#9 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 10:11 AM

rog said:

You think K6o wins 10% of the time here? I dont think so.
It doesn't have to win 10% of the time. Factor in post-flopimplied odds, then get back with me. It only has to win 10% of the time if I flop something good, bet out and it folds around. If I bet and get action with the best hand then it's even more profitable. Besides, K6off might win more than 10% of the time against 4 callers anyway.Besides, we're getting off course. My question is: Do you think I'm better off folding or checking in first position on this flop?

#10 Absolute

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:19 AM

I've just been waiting for another one of your "ideas".For those who aren't already aware of the scholarly intent of the original poster of this "fold don't check" idea, here is one of his prior "ideas".http://www.fullconta...4893&highlight=First, you slipped up in posting a hand where you called K6o PF. I don't care what position you are in, unless it's free in the BB, you fold this junk. Every. single. time. No excuses.As far as your fold don't check idea.I do this every now and again if I need to get up and piss or if a client doesn't have the fold to any bet option.Other than that, it's ****ing stupid.When the flop gets checked and the turn comes K and the turn gets checked and the river comes K, you should not be allowed to play poker ever again.Nice try though............ not.

#11 cdddc75

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:25 AM

JFarrell20 said:

Nasty flop in a 5-way pot. First instinct to check but I think it's better to fold so that the 4 people left don't have to "worry" about me still being behind them to act. If I fold here there's more of a chance this pot grows and someone gets KO'd.
Maybe this "strategy" would have some tiny value in the late stages of a satellite tournament. Otherwise, it's weaker than Michelob Ultra. Tells us again how GambleAB sucks at MTTs. I'm sure even he would laugh himself silly at this "strategy".
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#12 Absolute

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:27 AM

Aaron Bartley is sick.

#13 rog

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 11:29 AM

Well, I said 10%, because you said you were calling 100 to win 900. Let's see what implied odds you need. You said you'le looking for 2-pair or better. You'll pair both your hole cards 2% of the time. You'll make trips with unpaired cards about 1.35% of the time. Over all, you need 33:1 implied odds to make this call. If you're getting 33:1 implied odds, you should limp with any 2, and tell me where you play. If you count a board pair and a hole-card pair (another 2% of the time), you could go with about 20:1 implied odds, but 2 pair with a board pair is going to lose frequently. :)Your original question...I think your folding has a such a minute influence on the outcome of this hand. If you want the guy gone, you should call in case the flop hits you. Dont want him winning on a 66K flop with a weak K.

#14 Kendren

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 12:05 PM

Absolute said:

I've just been waiting for another one of your "ideas".For those who aren't already aware of the scholarly intent of the original poster of this "fold don't check" idea, here is one of his prior "ideas".http://www.fullconta...4893&highlight=First, you slipped up in posting a hand where you called K6o PF. I don't care what position you are in, unless it's free in the BB, you fold this junk. Every. single. time. No excuses.As far as your fold don't check idea.I do this every now and again if I need to get up and piss or if a client doesn't have the fold to any bet option.Other than that, it's censored stupid.When the flop gets checked and the turn comes K and the turn gets checked and the river comes K, you should not be allowed to play poker ever again.Nice try though............ not.
That thread was undoubtedly the most godawful stupid thing I've ever read. I love on the first page when people tell him it's stupid, he then proceeds to call THEM stupid for not understanding his brillance. Classic.

#15 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 01:45 PM

Absolute said:

I've just been waiting for another one of your "ideas".For those who aren't already aware of the scholarly intent of the original poster of this "fold don't check" idea, here is one of his prior "ideas".http://www.fullconta...4893&highlight=Nice to see you're man enough to....no wait... you are a child who has to go out of his way to try to make me look bad. Post that stuff all you want bro, I don't regret any of my ideas. See, most people learn to be open-minded at some point in their life. I suppose you haven't come to that point yet and are content in kicking back and abusing people who volunteer a simple idea. Thanks, though.First, you slipped up in posting a hand where you called K6o PF. I don't care what position you are in, unless it's free in the BB, you fold this junk. Every. single. time. No excuses.Learn. Implied. Odds. 100 extra to me here with 4100 is nothing. I'm guaranteed to be closing the betting because the BB is pre-flop passive.Try incorporating player reads into your game. Trust me, it helps.As far as your fold don't check idea.I do this every now and again if I need to get up and piss or if a client doesn't have the fold to any bet option.Other than that, it's censored stupid.When the flop gets checked and the turn comes K and the turn gets checked and the river comes K, you should not be allowed to play poker ever again.and....how many tourney's have you played in where a 5-way pot gets checked around this much? Seriously, I'd like to see stats before you abuse me.Nice try though............ not.


#16 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:03 PM

cdddc75 said:

JFarrell20 said:

Nasty flop in a 5-way pot. First instinct to check but I think it's better to fold so that the 4 people left don't have to "worry" about me still being behind them to act. If I fold here there's more of a chance this pot grows and someone gets KO'd.
Maybe this "strategy" would have some tiny value in the late stages of a satellite tournament. Otherwise, it's weaker than Michelob Ultra. Tells us again how GambleAB sucks at MTTs. I'm sure even he would laugh himself silly at this "strategy".
First of all it's by no means my "strategy". It's just an observation I made for the first time and I was wanting to get people's thoughts on it.I search through all the FullTilt tourney's and his name consistently shows up out of the money. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I've noticed he doesn't place very well very often.

#17 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:06 PM

Kendren said:

Absolute said:

I've just been waiting for another one of your "ideas".For those who aren't already aware of the scholarly intent of the original poster of this "fold don't check" idea, here is one of his prior "ideas".http://www.fullconta...4893&highlight=First, you slipped up in posting a hand where you called K6o PF. I don't care what position you are in, unless it's free in the BB, you fold this junk. Every. single. time. No excuses.As far as your fold don't check idea.I do this every now and again if I need to get up and piss or if a client doesn't have the fold to any bet option.Other than that, it's censored stupid.When the flop gets checked and the turn comes K and the turn gets checked and the river comes K, you should not be allowed to play poker ever again.Nice try though............ not.
That thread was undoubtedly the most godawful stupid thing I've ever read. I love on the first page when people tell him it's stupid, he then proceeds to call THEM stupid for not understanding his brillance. Classic.
Thanks. I could easily post under a different name if this crap really bothered me but it doesn't so go on calling me a moron, I'm going to continue posting thoughts on here. Oh wait...this isn't a learning forum? I forgot, it's a Sklansky-bot's-R-us forum. Whoops.

#18 Guest_XXEddie_*

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:08 PM

most annoying plays at a table1_dry side pot bluff2) folding for fear of being outdrawn3) folding, with the possibility to check

#19 Absolute

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:19 PM

JFarrell20 said:

cdddc75 said:

JFarrell20 said:

Nasty flop in a 5-way pot. First instinct to check but I think it's better to fold so that the 4 people left don't have to "worry" about me still being behind them to act. If I fold here there's more of a chance this pot grows and someone gets KO'd.
Maybe this "strategy" would have some tiny value in the late stages of a satellite tournament. Otherwise, it's weaker than Michelob Ultra. Tells us again how GambleAB sucks at MTTs. I'm sure even he would laugh himself silly at this "strategy".
First of all it's by no means my "strategy". It's just an observation I made for the first time and I was wanting to get people's thoughts on it.I search through all the FullTilt tourney's and his name consistently shows up out of the money. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I've noticed he doesn't place very well very often.
GambleAB (Aaaron Bartley) is easily the best MTT player at FullTiltPoker. He is constantly in the money and wins a tournament every other week or so.

#20 JFarrell20

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Posted 25 April 2005 - 02:24 PM

XXEddie said:

most annoying plays at a table3) folding, with the possibility to check
How is this annoying??? What's the point of sticking around on this flop in a 5-way pot with K6? The same guys who tell me not to complete the SB here tell me to "stick in the hand cuz you might end up winning it" LOL.If I turn a King I still don't like the hand and I'm not prepared to invest in it. If I turn a 6, I'm even less likely to invest in it. There is no way I will be holding this hand as a winner by the end of the river, unless I go for a stone-cold bluff, which I have no reason to do right now.Why do I want to check here when folding might mean two others are more likely to go up against eachother in a big pot?




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