Fd And Overs

[mkeller3086 0]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)saw flop|saw showdownHero ($20.75)UTG ($31.05)MP ($36.50)Button ($38.15)SB ($24.90)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60.Flop: ($1.80) , , (2 players)Hero checksa few questionsFirst, do we prefer leading the flop? If we lead and we get raised whats our plan?If we prefer c/c do we c/c a blank turn (how large of a bet do you call?) and if we c/c and hit do we lead or c/r?If we c/r and he reraises are we happy to get it all in on the flop? I have as many as 15 outs plus a back door straight draw but chances are if we get all the money in on the flop my overcards aren't good.Lastly, if we c/r and he just flat calls and we miss the turn

[Sheiky 0]

a few questionsFirst, do we prefer leading the flop?going to have to pay a big price to see the river.[/b] With a flop like that, i don't think leading out is a bad play, 1/2 pot bet maybe, though checking isn't wrong.en If we lead and we get raised whats our plan? It depends, the problem is that if you get raised there's a possibility that he has an overpair so you would be drawing to 9 outs. Whether you call or not is a very dependent on what the player might be raising with, if he's a loose player you can make looser calls etc. If he makes a reasonable raise i would probably fold, if he min raises...mmm...i may call, especialy if i've noticed he's a bit of a weak player.If we prefer c/c do we c/c a blank turn (how large of a bet do you call?) and if we c/c and hit do we lead or c/r? If a blank comes on the turn, you check. If you hit a diamond i would make a weakish looking bet hoping to get raised. How much you should call if you didn't hit depends on the pot odds, again it's hard to determine because you may be drawing to 9 outs instead of 15. If i thought he was weak and could win with a QJ or diamond i would call more than if he was a rock etc. If we c/r and he reraises are we happy to get it all in on the flop? I'm assuming this means check raising on the flop for a free card on the turn? A) I don't think that move works at lower levels and B) Hell no, if he re-raising you fold all day longLastly, if we c/r and he just flat calls and we miss the turn Check and hope he gives you a free card

[Cappy37 0]

Definitely lead that flop. There is little to no point in "drawing" to your hand if he isn't going to pay you off for it anyways.As an added bonus, if the flush card comes on the turn, you can check the "scare card" and either get bet at, or, if he checks behind, you can fire up to a pot-sized "bluff" on the river that will in all likelihood get you paid off.The downside is you may get raised on the flop, which will put you in a tougher position. But in the long run, you will likely come out ahead betting your draws. You are likely to either take it down on the flop or at least take over the betting lead, both good results from a single flop bet. This play will also make you tougher to read at the table, assuming players stick around long enough to notice things like that.

[tskillz187 0]

You have a backdoor straight draw too, I lead for like 2/3 pot, if I get raised (please let me get raised) I reraise which should commit me to the pot and I'm playing for stacks.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)saw flop|saw showdownHero ($20.75)UTG ($31.05)MP ($36.50)Button ($38.15)SB ($24.90)Preflop: Hero is BB with , . 1 fold, MP raises to $0.85, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60.Flop: ($1.80) , , (2 players)Hero checksa few questionsFirst, do we prefer leading the flop? If we lead and we get raised whats our plan?If we prefer c/c do we c/c a blank turn (how large of a bet do you call?) and if we c/c and hit do we lead or c/r?If we c/r and he reraises are we happy to get it all in on the flop? I have as many as 15 outs plus a back door straight draw but chances are if we get all the money in on the flop my overcards aren't good.Lastly, if we c/r and he just flat calls and we miss the turn

There's only $1.80 in the pot on our flop. We need to start filling this pot! Bet 3/4 pot

[krup24 0]

as said you want money in the pot here. i like a lead on the flop or a c/r. hit or miss we lead the turn if we c/r.

[BellaireDrew 2]

a few questionsFirst, do we prefer leading the flop?going to have to pay a big price to see the river.[/b]With a flop like that, i don't think leading out is the bad best play, 1/2 3/4 pot bet maybe, though checking isn't wrong.enIf we lead and we get raised whats our plan? It depends, the problem is that if you get raised there's a possibility that he has an overpair so you would be drawing to 9 outs. Whether you call or not is a very dependent on what the player might be raising with, if he's a loose player you can make looser calls etc. If he makes a reasonable raise i would probably fold, if he min raises...mmm...i may call, especialy if i've noticed he's a bit of a weak player.ShovelIf we prefer c/c do we c/c a blank turn (how large of a bet do you call?) and if we c/c and hit do we lead or c/r? If a blank comes on the turn, you check. If you hit a diamond i would make a weakish looking bet hoping to get raised. How much you should call if you didn't hit depends on the pot odds, again it's hard to determine because you may be drawing to 9 outs instead of 15. If i thought he was weak and could win with a QJ or diamond i would call more than if he was a rock etc.c/c is too weak imoIf we c/r and he reraises are we happy to get it all in on the flop? I'm assuming this means check raising on the flop for a free card on the turn? A) I don't think that move works at lower levels and cool.gif Hell no, if he re-raising you fold all day longyesLastly, if we c/r and he just flat calls and we miss the turn Check and hope he gives you a free cardlead out dont give the lead away.

[Sheiky 0]

Could someone explain the reasoning behind shoving on the flop if you get raised?I don't get it, if he raises then surely you take that to mean he's got a strong hand and that you're probably behind in the hand with nothing but a draw?

[Scott3705 0]

Could someone explain the reasoning behind shoving on the flop if you get raised?I don't get it, if he raises then surely you take that to mean he's got a strong hand and that you're probably behind in the hand with nothing but a draw?

we fold hands that are better than us sometimes (overpairs, AK, AQ, etc.). We keep villian from reraising our leads in the future with marginal hands. SS.Question for everyone: How do you play 109, A10 on this board.

[BellaireDrew 2]

we fold hands that are better than us sometimes (overpairs, AK, AQ, etc.). We keep villian from reraising our leads in the future with marginal hands. SS.

perfect answer

[Sheiky 0]

we fold hands that are better than us sometimes (overpairs, AK, AQ, etc.). We keep villian from reraising our leads in the future with marginal hands. SS.Question for everyone: How do you play 109, A10 on this board.

But for a micro limit game?I get the principle (and have read SS) but at these stakes i don't think it gains much value because you're playing against bad players who won't notice and change their play.

[nomad_monad 0]

Question for everyone: How do you play 109, A10 on this board.

AT - lead unless villain pathologically raises donkbets. If he does then its more read-dependent - sometimes I'll play for stacks against a guy like that here if he raises with overs enough, especially since a lot of times one of his over outs is dirty. Otherwise I c-c, re-evaluate turn.T9 - c-c. Good mixture of turn cards that are either scare cards, improve our hand, or bring us extra outs that also give us decent semi-bluffing opportunities. If the turn is a pure scare card, sometimes I bet 1/2 pot, which folds air almost always (while keeping us from a tough decision), or just check if villain slows down to scare cards. If the lead is just flat called, I might shovel on a river blank if I think villain can fold an overpair. If it improves our hand, lead out for 2/3 pot.If it gives us semi-bluffing opportunities, c/r.As far as the original hand - yes we should shovel here if raised. Lots of villains will raise you in position with unpaired big cards here - flat calling means you are hoping to hit while inviting another turn bluff if you miss, all in a bigger pot, which is a bad combo. I think the "it sometimes folds overpairs" rationale is pretty marginal at best though. I did some quick & dirty calculations and assuming we pot, he 3x raises us and we shovel, the villain has to fold JJ+ a bit more than 40% of the time before we reach the break-even point on our semi-bluff into (what will then be) a $9 pot. I think at any level it's going to be pretty damn hard to hit the requisite fold % if villain has an overpair. Fortunately, the villain's hand range is much wider than that, and while a lot of those hands can raise a donkbet, only an overpair (or TT) can call the shovel.

[Scott3705 0]

But for a micro limit game?I get the principle (and have read SS) but at these stakes i don't think it gains much value because you're playing against bad players who won't notice and change their play.

Micro limits have a bunch of calling stations and a bunch of complete nits. It's wrong to say these guys are bad so they'll call of with anything cause it's simply not true anymore. If we have a read on him that he calls off with anything, then, no I guess I'm against the play (i guess), but if he's stupid enough to call off anything he's stupid enough to raise air here on the flop too.

[mkeller3086 0]

But for a micro limit game?I get the principle (and have read SS) but at these stakes i don't think it gains much value because you're playing against bad players who won't notice and change their play.

I'm happy to push against a nit or a loose calling station both for different reasons.With a nit you are getting him to fold better hands and with a calling station you are actually pushing an equity edge because you are likely better than 50 percent on the flop given his calling range.

[mkeller3086 0]

Question for everyone: How do you play 109, A10 on this board.

my line against a standard 25nl full tilt player is to c/r on the flop. I have found this to be a lot more successful than the c/c and reevaluate the turn. A lot of times against unknowns the turn doesn't give me much more information. They could either be firing another barrel on the turn with overcards (which I do often on boards like this) or they could only bet turns with good hands. Since I don't have a read on every player a face I have no idea what type of player they are. Imo the flop c/r gives me the most info. Most players will reraise if they have a pair of tens beat and fold or sometimes call when they can't. If i c/r and get called I will lead the turn again probably fold if I am raised and shut down and try to get to showdown cheaply if called. I am not worried about opening myself up to getting outplayed on the flop by c/r or leading the turn. In my experience these levels are very passive and its rare to find a player that will not play their hand in a straightforward fashion when faced with the flop c/r. If they are willing to bluff my c/r or bluff the turn, good for them, they are the exception and I won't see them too often.

[Sheiky 0]

I'm happy to push against a nit or a loose calling station both for different reasons.With a nit you are getting him to fold better hands and with a calling station you are actually pushing an equity edge because you are likely better than 50 percent on the flop given his calling range.

Ahhhhh, yeh i get you./

[nomad_monad 0]

If i c/r and get called I will lead the turn again probably fold if I am raised and shut down and try to get to showdown cheaply if called.

with typical stack sizes, you really can't do eitheri really don't like c/r just for infoc-c/re-evaluate depends on board texture - on a dry board it's not going to work very well because not very many turn cards will keep villain from double barreling. i like a c/r there a bit more, but mainly to just end the hand right there. on this one though, there are tons of turn cards that are pretty threatening. if villain fires again, i make a note of it because he will pay dearly when i c/r him on the turn whenever i hit a draw.it's just TPTK and not a very good one at that - c/r and you're playing a big pot OOP with a marginal hand. it's ok when we're a lot deeper, but that's because we're no longer really playing a big pot.