98s - I'm A Chasin' Fool

[psujohn 0]

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 , 8 . 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB calls.Flop: (6 SB) K , 8 , 5 (4 players)Hero bets, BB calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB calls.Turn: (6 BB) 6 (4 players)Hero checks, BB checks, CO bets, Hero callsCO is 45/5 but only 35 hands. Everything standardly standard here?

[Metternich 0]

Can you explain to me what you're trying to do here? From my perspective it looks like a rather dumb move, I think it's pretty likely CO has the king.

[psujohn 0]

I lead the flop because my 2nd pair could easily be good here. Once CO raises there's a decent chance he has a K or TT-AA but I have 5 outs against those and I'm getting 10:1 immediate odds to call.On the turn I pick up 4 more outs and I'm getting 7:1 to call with potentially 9 outs.So basically what I'm trying to do here is call getting proper pot odds.Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Metternich 0]

Ok, I see what you're doing. I thought this was NL for some reason, my mistake.

[Zach6668 513]

c/r the flop. I don't think that's close. Look at our relative position.

[gryphon11 0]

check raise flop

[potatoman 0]

check raise flop

Could we detail why you should check raise the flop? Potential for getting rid of the BB and getting a free card?

[Zach6668 513]

Could we detail why you should check raise the flop? Potential for getting rid of the BB and getting a free card?

Chasing out the BB with our extraordinarily vulnerable hand would be tremendous.Another benefit: CO will probably bet with 99% of his range here, and we're ahead of a decent portion of that, meaning we're getting him to put in more money while he's behind (or folding when he's drawing very live, think QJ, QT, etc). On the other hand, if we donkbet, it's up to him whether he'd like to put in that 2nd bet, which most players will do, most frequently, with the hands that beat us, and less often with hands we beat.Also, donkbets are extraordinarily gay.This is such a classic example of relative position 101. I can't see how this could even be close. I can't think of one benefit of donking here.There are other hands/boards where I'd donk with our relative position, but those would be ones where I'm trying to keep the BB in.Here, why the hell are we letting him in for 1 bet, AND letting CO decide how he wants to use his position to play optimally.Also, if you c/r this hand here, you'll get a lot more action when you c/r your sets, etc. "zomg that guy c/r a pfr with 2nd pair, I guess I'd better start calling him down a lot lighter, he's a bluff machine!!! zomg".Anyone else have anything to add?***********Btw, as played, past the flop, it's pretty standard. If BB folds the turn, I consider calling river UI.Oooh, I thought of another benefit to the flop c/r. The information is a lot more accurate. Some players will raise donk bets with hands like AQ, AJ here, but usually, if you're 3-bet, it's a lot more likely that we are behind, in which case we can proceed from the turn on, knowing we're drawing, and playing simply by pot odds.Edited to add: How do you expect to get a free card by c/r'ing here? We're OOP. If we check, most tards will bet any two. Also, if we raise the flop, we're betting the turn because we probably have the best hand. We're folding to a raise usually, depending on the price for our gutterball, and sometimes clean 2 pair/trip outs. I think what your post boiled down to, is that you're assuming we're behind here far too often, and not accepting the possibility that we're ahead quite often.For example, my CO opening range: 33-AA, A2s+, A5o+, K5s+, K9o+, Q9s+, QTo+, J8s+, JTo, T8s+, 97s+, 87s, 76s.Now, I'm betting 100% of the time on that flop, with any two cards I hold. Here, we're behind AA, QQ, JJ, TT (6 combos each), KK, 99, 55 (3 combos each), 88 (1 combo), and A8s, AKs, AKo, A8o, K5s+, K9o+, J8s, T8s (various combos I'm too lazy to add up).All the rest, we beat.

[DinkDonk 1]

^^^^^Rant seems to be entirely correct. NH Zach.