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#21 Cappy37

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:22 AM

Thanks for the Q&A forum, Steve!I play almost exclusively NLHE large MTTs and 45 man SNGs at the micro-limit levels ($1-2). I'm your typical bonus-whorer, trying to turn $50 into a brazillion. I run real well in the micro Razz and Horse tourneys, but with the lack of tourney and (especially) SNG options at micro stakes, I'm stuck in hold 'em hell until I clear bonus.That said, my question is this: I have two leaks in my game that I have identified. #1 : I play entirely too aggressively once I am ITM in NLHE MTTs in order to accumulate chips. Although it depends highly on read, M, stack size, and FIV, do you have some general guidelines for chip accumulation once you are in the last 10% of the field of a large field? It is much more difficult (bordering on suicide) to wait for legitimate hands late, but any more than one "steal" an orbit seems to bring the wrath of the doomswitch. Do you put any stock in stealing from the blind-stealers, or is that play best left until the FT, where the prize jumps really make even the marginal players put on the brakes with KJsooooted?#2 : The first hour of NLHE MTTs. Holy god. I don't even know where to begin. Sometimes I feel any money put into any pot pre- or post-flop before the blinds hit 25/50 can be classified as a dark tunnel bet. How do you advocate approaching the first hour? I think in 80% of my last 20 MTTs I've sat at the end of the first hour comparing my stack size to the field and realizing I was better off sitting out. There's the basic thoughts of staying away from connectors except in late position in unraised pots, not getting too involved with A-rag up through AQ PF. Playing small pairs for set mining only. I don't even worry about playing too tight that I do not get big hands paid off, because absolutely *no one* notices. They are too busy being the 6th cold caller of a large UTG raise, or the 4th post-flop all-in where no one has either an overpair, or the straight or flush draw. :club: It truly is insane getting anyone to lay anything down postflop in these donkfests. Can we truly decide to be as tight as to play only top 10-type hands until at least 25/50 or 50/100 blinds? It's almost criminal to stay out of pots with all the dead money being tossed around, but reducing yourself to getting into so many marginal spots against calling stations has got to be -EV in the long run. I almost feel better about calling raises with suited connectors in position as opposed to calling in unraised pots, because its actually rather difficult to get substantially paid off in unraised pots with connector-friendly flops. At least when we call raises with the connectors, we can play them much similar to set-mining a small pair, so it takes a lot of pressure off us to make a hard decision post-flop. But once again, risking much more than 5% of our chips on connectors has got to be a big no-no, right?OK, I think I provided enough content before I started to ramble. Thanks in advance, Steve.
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#22 nutzbuster

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:03 AM

Great addition to the forums. Thanks. B)



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#23 The Czar

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:10 AM

If you had one method and one month to improve yourself as a player without actually playing, would you read books (HOH, etc.), pour over hand histories or rail similarly styled successful players? Obviously, a combination of all of these is ideal, but how do you feel is the BEST way to improve your game WITHOUT actually playing?
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#24 wsox8

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:40 AM

I know this question can be very situational but I can't think of many others at the moment. I usually play LHE 1/2 and 2/4. Are there certain hand guidlines that you usually play by? Or what do you usually raise with and are there ever situations where you would limp instead of raising preflop? I know it really depends on the situation (position) and reads on the other people but that's all I've got. I was also interested to hear what types of games you usually play or enjoy the most.Also, I'm turning 21 soon so are there any things I should know about live play that is different from online? (tips,style,how much I should buy in for)Thanks for answering everyone's questions. I appreciate it.

#25 Jordan

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:58 AM

I don't know how much you play HU, or have thought of the issue...so I'm just asking outta curiousity...How many buy-ins do you think are appropriate to play 2/4nl - 10/20nl HU cash games...taking into consideration that "you" have beat .5/1-1/2 with a little 2/4 over the course of 100k+ hands.For a "pro".I personally have tried to play with no less than 100 buy-ins, which is not necessary for .5/1 or 1/2 really at all, but I wanted to take my time coming back and make sure I had discipline. So really I'm wondering what you think, if anything, about 2/4, 3/6, 5/10 and 10/20...Would you keep the 100 buy-in rule, or look at 50 buy-ins as "good" for any limit in that range, and take shots in good games if you have say 35 buy-ins? Or maybe 100 buy-ins for your main game, and say 50-75 buy-ins for the next limit up if taking a shot?Just curious what you think...something I've been debating...- Jordan

#26 yeffy

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:55 AM

View PostAAsnake88, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 5:30 AM, said:

Would it be too much to ask for some guidelines to use when playing badugi? Perhaps just starting hands, raising hands, etc. to propel some discussion.
This is a good article on Badugi:Chris Fargis Badugi interviewChris has a great poker mind and I've watched him destroy lower high limit(150-300ish) mixed games here in nyc. I think he has a few other articles around online.Sorry to hijack steve just thought it was a good resource for someone learning the game as there isn't much out there.
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#27 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:11 PM

View PostCappy37, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 5:22 AM, said:

Thanks for the Q&A forum, Steve!I play almost exclusively NLHE large MTTs and 45 man SNGs at the micro-limit levels ($1-2). I'm your typical bonus-whorer, trying to turn $50 into a brazillion. I run real well in the micro Razz and Horse tourneys, but with the lack of tourney and (especially) SNG options at micro stakes, I'm stuck in hold 'em hell until I clear bonus.That said, my question is this: I have two leaks in my game that I have identified. #1 : I play entirely too aggressively once I am ITM in NLHE MTTs in order to accumulate chips. Although it depends highly on read, M, stack size, and FIV, do you have some general guidelines for chip accumulation once you are in the last 10% of the field of a large field? It is much more difficult (bordering on suicide) to wait for legitimate hands late, but any more than one "steal" an orbit seems to bring the wrath of the doomswitch. Do you put any stock in stealing from the blind-stealers, or is that play best left until the FT, where the prize jumps really make even the marginal players put on the brakes with KJsooooted?#2 : The first hour of NLHE MTTs. Holy god. I don't even know where to begin. Sometimes I feel any money put into any pot pre- or post-flop before the blinds hit 25/50 can be classified as a dark tunnel bet. How do you advocate approaching the first hour? I think in 80% of my last 20 MTTs I've sat at the end of the first hour comparing my stack size to the field and realizing I was better off sitting out. There's the basic thoughts of staying away from connectors except in late position in unraised pots, not getting too involved with A-rag up through AQ PF. Playing small pairs for set mining only. I don't even worry about playing too tight that I do not get big hands paid off, because absolutely *no one* notices. They are too busy being the 6th cold caller of a large UTG raise, or the 4th post-flop all-in where no one has either an overpair, or the straight or flush draw. :club: It truly is insane getting anyone to lay anything down postflop in these donkfests. Can we truly decide to be as tight as to play only top 10-type hands until at least 25/50 or 50/100 blinds? It's almost criminal to stay out of pots with all the dead money being tossed around, but reducing yourself to getting into so many marginal spots against calling stations has got to be -EV in the long run. I almost feel better about calling raises with suited connectors in position as opposed to calling in unraised pots, because its actually rather difficult to get substantially paid off in unraised pots with connector-friendly flops. At least when we call raises with the connectors, we can play them much similar to set-mining a small pair, so it takes a lot of pressure off us to make a hard decision post-flop. But once again, risking much more than 5% of our chips on connectors has got to be a big no-no, right?OK, I think I provided enough content before I started to ramble. Thanks in advance, Steve.
These are good questions. Most of these apply directly to online tournaments. In order to give you the best advice, I will have Adam (Vick12) answer the question when he is around.
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#28 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:24 PM

View PostThe Czar, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 7:10 AM, said:

If you had one method and one month to improve yourself as a player without actually playing, would you read books (HOH, etc.), pour over hand histories or rail similarly styled successful players? Obviously, a combination of all of these is ideal, but how do you feel is the BEST way to improve your game WITHOUT actually playing?
Usually if someone is taking a month off, it is because they are doing poorly, or they are sick of poker.Joe Cassidy and I were hanging out the other day and he told me he went to Hawaii for awhile after the WSOP to relax. That is something that I wish I would have done. I think poker players need a break to regroup and refocus after playing for extended periods of time. I don't think that going over hand histories and reading books is the way to go.I do like the idea of sweating other players. However, you can pick up bad habits by doing that. Usually when people sweat players, they sweat very well known pros. Those individuals play a style that works for a certain limit. That style might not work at the level you are playing at. I'm fortunate because I get to watch some truly great players fairly often. But I have learned that certain tactics that they use only work in that game. What I take away from my experience are attitude, table presence, discipline, etc. These are more important than technical issues. Being away from the game for awhile is always a good idea to clear your head. Somtimes it's best to not think about poker at all. That is one solution.Sweating other players is another great solution if it is done properly.I hope this helps.
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#29 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:38 PM

View Postwsox8, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 7:40 AM, said:

I know this question can be very situational but I can't think of many others at the moment. I usually play LHE 1/2 and 2/4. Are there certain hand guidlines that you usually play by? Or what do you usually raise with and are there ever situations where you would limp instead of raising preflop? I know it really depends on the situation (position) and reads on the other people but that's all I've got. I was also interested to hear what types of games you usually play or enjoy the most.Also, I'm turning 21 soon so are there any things I should know about live play that is different from online? (tips,style,how much I should buy in for)Thanks for answering everyone's questions. I appreciate it.
When JC was living with me I watched him play some low limit hold em. This was of course a long time ago. The book sshe goes into great detail regarding how hands should be played. I don't agree with a lot of the things they have written in the book. I watched JC do things, and I kept saying, that's wrong. He would say, that's what the book says. The problem with lower limit games is that you will almost always be multi-way in pots. That lowers the value of hands like AK, and gives added value to flush draws. Most people will be correctly priced in to call bets and draw. I don't have a specific guideline that I believe a person should follow. I think it's important to experiment and figure out what is working at that limit. It is more important to realize that as you move up in limits the style of play will change. The way you play at 1-2, will not work at 10-20, and 30-60, etc. You have to constantly adjust to new limits.Limping vs. Raising. As most of my students will tell you.........I will almost always raise as opposed to limping. I think that's better for your game.I personally play a wide variety of games. Usually mix games. You will almost never see me playing no limit. When going from online to live, you should take your time and have fun. Start off small to get a feel for how the table works. What I mean is that in any given casino, the table will often dictate how you play. Games play differently in AC vs. LA vs. Vegas.I reccomend always buying in for about 30bb's in a limit game. I would also consider that to be a stop loss when you are first starting out. If you lose 30bb's it's probably time to call it a day.I would also pay attention to who is winning on a regular basis at that limit and why. Hope that helps.Good Luck.
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#30 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:47 PM

View PostJordan, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 7:58 AM, said:

I don't know how much you play HU, or have thought of the issue...so I'm just asking outta curiousity...How many buy-ins do you think are appropriate to play 2/4nl - 10/20nl HU cash games...taking into consideration that "you" have beat .5/1-1/2 with a little 2/4 over the course of 100k+ hands.For a "pro".I personally have tried to play with no less than 100 buy-ins, which is not necessary for .5/1 or 1/2 really at all, but I wanted to take my time coming back and make sure I had discipline. So really I'm wondering what you think, if anything, about 2/4, 3/6, 5/10 and 10/20...Would you keep the 100 buy-in rule, or look at 50 buy-ins as "good" for any limit in that range, and take shots in good games if you have say 35 buy-ins? Or maybe 100 buy-ins for your main game, and say 50-75 buy-ins for the next limit up if taking a shot?Just curious what you think...something I've been debating...- Jordan
The number of buy ins you will need for heads up will obviously be more in heads up vs. full ring. I have always believed that more is better when it comes to poker. I personally don't like the feeling of having my back up against the wall. I want to know that I have plenty of money to play with.One of the problems with taking shots is that it can be hard to step back down after you have done so. No matter what anyone says, myself included, it's tough to drop limits. A good example would be taking a shot and winning a session or two. Then you lose more than you won in the next session. At that point it becomes VERY difficult to drop back down. I think this is where discipline comes in. If you honestly can take a shot and move back down, then I think it's ok. But you must be honest with yourself.I personally haven't played a lot of heads up nl online. I think my idea of having more is universal though. It doesn't matter what game you are playing. You want the comfort of knowing that you can always come back to fight another day. That will keep your head clear, and you will be able to make the best decisions possible at all times without the feeling of "I must get even".
If you hear a voice within you saying, "You are not a painter," then by all means paint - and that voice will be silenced.

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#31 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:56 PM

View Postyeffy, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 9:55 AM, said:

This is a good article on Badugi:Chris Fargis Badugi interviewChris has a great poker mind and I've watched him destroy lower high limit(150-300ish) mixed games here in nyc. I think he has a few other articles around online.Sorry to hijack steve just thought it was a good resource for someone learning the game as there isn't much out there.
Thanks for the article. I didn't think it was a hi-jack at all, I found it quite useful. Chris is a talented guy. I have played a lot of 2-7 triple draw with him back in the day on UB, and a few sessions at Commerce.He brings up some great points in his column.One of the problems with badugi is that it is often played at high limits. Which makes the game difficult to learn.
If you hear a voice within you saying, "You are not a painter," then by all means paint - and that voice will be silenced.

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#32 FoxwoodsPro

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 03:49 PM

I know your not a tournament expert but sometimes late in tourneys I have a decent-huge stack and commit myself to a hand I'm sure is not the best hand " I get trapped " in the feeling I must win this pot or I can take this pot if I play it this way. I find this is my downfall as opposed to a cooler after outlasting 60-80% of the field. any suggestions?
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#33 Uniqueuponhim

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 03:49 PM

A Question: I've heard that a postflop AF of around 3-4 is generally considered ideal. However, mine hovers around 1.5 and every time I try being about 3-4, I ending up losing a lot of money. My VPIP/PFR is around 15/8, and I find that in order to be higher than 1.5 AF, I have to do a combination of a lot of bluffing and overplaying decent (but not great) hands. But calling stations at micro levels make bluffing unprofitable, and when I overplay my "decent" hands, I end up paying off better hands way more than I should be. So how do I increase my aggression to proper "TAG" levels in a profitable manner?

#34 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:01 PM

View PostFoxwoodsPro, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 3:49 PM, said:

I know your not a tournament expert but sometimes late in tourneys I have a decent-huge stack and commit myself to a hand I'm sure is not the best hand " I get trapped " in the feeling I must win this pot or I can take this pot if I play it this way. I find this is my downfall as opposed to a cooler after outlasting 60-80% of the field. any suggestions?
That's a good question. I think late stage tourney play has a lot to do with who is at your table. If I am at a table with people that I feel are better than I am, I will gamble more. If I feel that the table is weak I will chop away and value bet, set traps, try and play more of a post flop game.In your particular case, it sounds like you are trying to accumulate too many chips too quickly when you know you are behind. You have to pace yourself. No need to put all of your chips into play with the worst of it. That is called self sabotage. People not only do this in poker, but life as well. When things are going well, they find a way to screw that up. It's a bad habit that can be broken if you work on it.You don't NEED to win any pot in particular except for the very last one of the tourney, always keep that in mind. If you remain calm and focused, you can use your chip stack to bully people without having to risk all of your chips. Don't ever let pride get in the way of making the correct decision. Also remember to change gears when applicable in the late stage of a tournament. If people are knocking each other out like crazy, no need to get involved with speculative hands.The key is always to trap other people, not yourself.
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#35 FoxwoodsPro

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:03 PM

ty very good advice indeedalso I appreciate your subtle comments that may affect other areas of my poker endevour
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#36 Jordan

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:09 PM

View Poststeve7stud, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

The number of buy ins you will need for heads up will obviously be more in heads up vs. full ring. I have always believed that more is better when it comes to poker. I personally don't like the feeling of having my back up against the wall. I want to know that I have plenty of money to play with.One of the problems with taking shots is that it can be hard to step back down after you have done so. No matter what anyone says, myself included, it's tough to drop limits. A good example would be taking a shot and winning a session or two. Then you lose more than you won in the next session. At that point it becomes VERY difficult to drop back down. I think this is where discipline comes in. If you honestly can take a shot and move back down, then I think it's ok. But you must be honest with yourself.I personally haven't played a lot of heads up nl online. I think my idea of having more is universal though. It doesn't matter what game you are playing. You want the comfort of knowing that you can always come back to fight another day. That will keep your head clear, and you will be able to make the best decisions possible at all times without the feeling of "I must get even".
Werd. I agree.I had a rough night last night. Played 5/10 6 max and won 3 buy-ins, ok, fine...whatever. Sit at 10/20 with a really bad 5/10 player who was buying in short for 400 and 800 the first two times I bust him. Needless to say, he rebuys again and goes on a run and wins 3 buy-ins off me. Weird how clear headed I feel today. I didn't steam and am not tilted. I know HU is my bread and butter so I'm fine with suffering losses here and there. The "I must get even" syndrome I think is a very valid concern that you must be aware of, especially playing for a living. I'm sure that has ruined many careers. I was thinking today about how great my comeback has been and how I don't need to worry about a few tough weeks as if I keep playing my game and do what got me here I'll be ok. Honesty with oneself is def. key...and very hard to do at times for poker players, and perhaps also in life.So meh, have finals coming up and need to focus on that stuff more...but despite being down 2.6k this month, which really at this point is irrelevant cause I believe I'm playing well and will turn it around if I log more hands, is just kinda like well, that's how it goes sometimes. I'm glad you've done this thread, I think it's good for other guys to get inside the head of a guy who been doing this for a living for a while...and I'm glad I agree and think along the same lines that you have written above.- Jordan

#37 steve7stud

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:10 PM

View PostUniqueuponhim, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 3:49 PM, said:

A Question: I've heard that a postflop AF of around 3-4 is generally considered ideal. However, mine hovers around 1.5 and every time I try being about 3-4, I ending up losing a lot of money. My VPIP/PFR is around 15/8, and I find that in order to be higher than 1.5 AF, I have to do a combination of a lot of bluffing and overplaying decent (but not great) hands. But calling stations at micro levels make bluffing unprofitable, and when I overplay my "decent" hands, I end up paying off better hands way more than I should be. So how do I increase my aggression to proper "TAG" levels in a profitable manner?
Most online tourneys give you very few chips to play with. Because of that I feel it is important to take the approach of "Go big or go home". If you have an opportunity to double up, I am all for it. You will often "feel" like someone is weak and yet you might be unwilling to put them to the test by shoving on them, or making a huge raise. This is where I have seen people fall short. In a tournament, especially online, you should not be afraid of busting out. You must be willing to take risks. Quite often you will find yourself losing because of those risks that you have taken. At the same time, if you play it safe, you will get into the money or close to, but never secure a victory.The idea really, is to win as many pots as possible so that you can afford to gamble at certain points. Even when you lose those 40-60's, 50-50's etc. You will still have plenty of chips to play with. I would specifically reccomend attacking every pot that is uncontested. And I would also apply maximium pressure to those you feel are weak or semi-weak. In the end, you should see drastic improvements.
If you hear a voice within you saying, "You are not a painter," then by all means paint - and that voice will be silenced.

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#38 bdc30

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:16 PM

View Poststeve7stud, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 4:01 PM, said:

That's a good question. I think late stage tourney play has a lot to do with who is at your table. If I am at a table with people that I feel are better than I am, I will gamble more. If I feel that the table is weak I will chop away and value bet, set traps, try and play more of a post flop game.In your particular case, you're always at tables full of people better than you are, so I'd shove with any two cards basically.
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#39 MR_BIZKITZ

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:21 PM

I have been a doing really well in PLO for a while now but everything goes wrong when I sit at a O8B table. I feel I have a good understanding of omaha in general but my results haven't been that great in the split format. What are some common mistakes that even a good player might make when starting to play O8B? Common leaks? Biggest differences in the two games beside the obvious? BTW thankyou for doing this steve!Davis

#40 Zach6668

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:29 PM

View PostUniqueuponhim, on Thursday, August 16th, 2007, 7:49 PM, said:

A Question: I've heard that a postflop AF of around 3-4 is generally considered ideal. However, mine hovers around 1.5 and every time I try being about 3-4, I ending up losing a lot of money. My VPIP/PFR is around 15/8, and I find that in order to be higher than 1.5 AF, I have to do a combination of a lot of bluffing and overplaying decent (but not great) hands. But calling stations at micro levels make bluffing unprofitable, and when I overplay my "decent" hands, I end up paying off better hands way more than I should be. So how do I increase my aggression to proper "TAG" levels in a profitable manner?
3-4 is like really high.I'm not sure what you're talking about, I'm assuming NL, so I'm not completely qualified to answer this, but I can't imagining 3-4 being considered ideal for any games.For limit, somewhere between 2 and 2.5 is good.
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