Flop A Monster - Standard Play

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Live Casino Motor City Detroit$1/$2 $200 MaxAbout an hour into the table. Very tight table. I am playing TAG & am down about 1/4 of a buy-in.Hero BB ($150)Villain #1 UTG Very Tight ($150)Villian #2 MP Very Tight but sort of a Donk at times ($200)Hero J/10oSeveral callers Hero Checks OptionPot $10Flop: 8/9/Q RainbowVillian #1 Bets $20Villian #2 Raise to $50Fold to Hero - Mild Hollywood (I am assuming V#1 has a decent pair and V#2 either 2 pair or a set) then pushesVillian #1 Tanks - then MucksVillian #2 Tanks - then CallsSo, regardless of my image I am getting great Value for my hand......however......we know the rest (why else post this hand?)Turn 2River 9My question is this: Being a prohibitive favorite still means you are going to lose x% of the time (unless you are only going to play the Stone Nuts). On a play like this where I induced the bad guy to make a very bad call, is there any other "option"? I think this was pretty standard.

[Scott3705 0]

interesting thing about this hand. If villian has a set, you don't want him to call. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Besides that, bad beats happen. meh.

[rdtedm 0]

interesting thing about this hand. If villian has a set, you don't want him to call. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Besides that, bad beats happen. meh.

???????????

[dgostate8 0]

Sounds like you played it very well to me, don't change anything. And for once I won't post what the standard reply to a post like this...but I'm sure someone else will...

[rdtedm 0]

???????????

Elaboration:We are ahead of any hand at this point, and if one of our opponents gets their money in we will be ahead right now. Since Villain 1 had to "tank," unless he's saving face, we have reason to believe that he's laid down at least one pair, if not two or a bottom set (if he's that cool). That's between 1-2 outs that villain now is missing to draw to his boat, giving us a further lead. How can you not want a call from a worse hand for stacks!?!?!12

[Scott3705 0]

???????????

Your equity actually goes below what's already in the pot. He's got a mathematically correct call at the flop getting 2.5:1. It's nice to get villians to fold when they have equity in the pot.

[Scott3705 0]

Your equity actually goes below what's already in the pot. He's got a mathematically correct call at the flop getting 2.5:1. It's nice to get villians to fold when they have equity in the pot.

Equity if he folds = $230ish (assuming there's about $10 in pot preflop). Equity in the pot if vilian calls probably goes down to $200 or so.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

interesting thing about this hand. If villian has a set, you don't want him to call. Just thought I'd throw that in there. Besides that, bad beats happen. meh.

If he flopped the set I'm about a 2:1 favorite......turns out it was Top two and I was WAY ahead.

[rdtedm 0]

Your equity actually goes below what's already in the pot. He's got a mathematically correct call at the flop getting 2.5:1. It's nice to get villians to fold when they have equity in the pot.

If you want, I'll trade you my sklansky dollars for your real $$.

[Scott3705 0]

Elaboration:We are ahead of any hand at this point, and if one of our opponents gets their money in we will be ahead right now. Since Villain 1 had to "tank," unless he's saving face, we have reason to believe that he's laid down at least one pair, if not two or a bottom set (if he's that cool). That's between 1-2 outs that villain now is missing to draw to his boat, giving us a further lead.

Forgot about that, but still not going to change it that much. There's nothing strategic about what I'm saying... I just think it's interesting.

[Scott3705 0]

If you want, I'll trade you my sklansky dollars for your real $$.

??

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Sounds like you played it very well to me, don't change anything. And for once I won't post what the standard reply to a post like this...but I'm sure someone else will...

Thanks... & I know - BBF is that-a-way

[Scott3705 0]

If he flops the set I'm about a 2:1 favorite

Sorry, didn't mean to start a $hit storm here... I just think it's something interesting that is more my Omaha mind talking....Assume there's $230 in the pot now: 10 preflop, 20 bet, 50 raise $150 push. If villian folds QQ you wint $230 100% of the time. If villian calls,You win $330, 67% of the time = $221.$221<$230. Like i said nothing major and nothing strategic, I just think it's interesting because obviously the knee jerk reaction is "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"

[rdtedm 0]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a $hit storm here... I just think it's something interesting that is more my Omaha mind talking....Assume there's $230 in the pot now: 10 preflop, 20 bet, 50 raise $150 push. If villian folds QQ you wint $230 100% of the time. If villian calls,You win $330, 67% of the time = $221.$221<$230. Like i said nothing major and nothing strategic, I just think it's interesting because obviously the knee jerk reaction is "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"

I think if villain is missing an out or two though, via the laydown of villain #1, our equity changes, and we might come out on top.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Sorry, didn't mean to start a $hit storm here... I just think it's something interesting that is more my Omaha mind talking....Assume there's $230 in the pot now: 10 preflop, 20 bet, 50 raise $150 push. If villian folds QQ you wint $230 100% of the time. If villian calls,You win $330, 67% of the time = $221.$221<$230. Like i said nothing major and nothing strategic, I just think it's interesting because obviously the knee jerk reaction is "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?"

No storming! Enjoying the discussion.Based on his body language I figured him for the call. He was feeling confident and had been waiting to make a move. However, at this point I am also OK with taking the $75 of other people's $ in the pot and going on to the next hand. If he calls, that is good too since I am a favorite.

[Scott3705 0]

I think if villain is missing an out or two though, via the laydown of villain #1, our equity changes, and we might come out on top.

68% with one dead71% with two dead so two outs would flip it.

[Scott3705 0]

No storming! Enjoying the discussion.Based on his body language I figured him for the call. He was feeling confident and had been waiting to make a move. However, at this point I am also OK with taking the $75 of other people's $ in the pot and going on to the next hand. If he calls, that is good too since I am a favorite.

Yeah the hand is competely standard.

[rdtedm 0]

68% with one dead71% with two dead so two outs would flip it.

Either way, it's pretty close. What do you want here if you're hero, a call or a fold?

[Scott3705 0]

Either way, it's pretty close. What do you want here if you're hero, a call or a fold?

Here I'd want a call cause he's got a lot of other hands that aren't sets. Two pair is 4:1 against us and and overpair is trying close to dead.

[rdtedm 0]

Here I'd want a call cause he's got a lot of other hands that aren't sets. Two pair is 4:1 against us and and overpair is trying close to dead.

I think we have to calculate our equity based on villain's range, and not just a set then. This is why I was talking about sklansky dollars.

[rdtedm 0]

I think we have to calculate our equity based on villain's range, and not just a set then. This is why I was talking about sklansky dollars.

If we're absolutely 100% sure that villain has a set, then we may want to flat call the flop play and wait for a blank turn. If we shove there, we're not losing value from villain calling with a set. Pretty standard play though.EDIT*This actually still might be close because now we're offering villain the odds to call with virtually any hand, seeing as how he has to be good a small amount of time to make the call profitable (assuming he's not drawing dead). Want to run the numbers?

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

If we're absolutely 100% sure that villain has a set, then we may want to flat call the flop play and wait for a blank turn. If we shove there, we're not losing value from villain calling with a set. Pretty standard play though.EDIT*This actually still might be close because now we're offering villain the odds to call with virtually any hand, seeing as how he has to be good a small amount of time to make the call profitable (assuming he's not drawing dead). Want to run the numbers?

This is why I think we needed to Push. Only way to swing the Villain into "Bad Call" territory for sure.

[rdtedm 0]

This is why I think we needed to Push. Only way to swing the Villain into "Bad Call" territory for sure.

Regardless, I don't know many people who are laying down a set here, esp. QQ/99.

[simo_8ball 1]

If you know he has a set or two pair, you're actually better calling the flop and getting it in on the turn if it doesn't pair the board. I would usually opt for that line (although I might not get away if it pairs the turn) to encourage villain 1 to overcall with one pair drawing nearly dead.

[rdtedm 0]

If you know he has a set or two pair, you're actually better calling the flop and getting it in on the turn if it doesn't pair the board. I would usually opt for that line (although I might not get away if it pairs the turn) to encourage villain 1 to overcall with one pair drawing nearly dead.

I like this line too.