14 replies to this topic

[cubbybri]

Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $13.90
Hero: $13.05
MP1: $4.40
MP2: $61.90
CO: $5.00
Button: $2.75
SB: $15.45
BB: $31.70

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A T
UTG calls, Hero raises, 6 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: A K 3 (5.6SB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: J (3.8BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: 6 (5.8BB, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.8BB

[Actuary]

he actually can be a LAP and not have you beat here
Like, if he always waits and/or makes these plays occassionally.
Bad players make bad plays and sometimes the stata are deceiving

But if you know he is passive or even normal and does not bluff raise, you have an easy fold on the river.

Buuut if he is a true LAP, he rasies a lot of hands that beat you, preflop. AJ, KJ, AK
But A3, A6, QT, not so much

[Zach6668]

Pretty standard, imo.

I don't think I can fold the river.

We're not ahead lots though, meh.

[RISEorFall]

standard pf raise even if you werent trying to isolate, imo

im trying to find a reason not to bet the river (results biased given i know he c/r) but i cant find a good one.
and i hate making hero laydowns for one more bet on the river in decent sized pots, even when it seems real obvious were beat.

[cubbybri]

standard pf raise even if you werent trying to isolate, imo

im trying to find a reason not to bet the river (results biased given i know he c/r) but i cant find a good one.
and i hate making hero laydowns for one more bet on the river in decent sized pots, even when it seems real obvious were beat.

Now I'm going straight off SSHE here. Again, me getting all this info and not using properly could be an issue. Says that I should limp if following a limp or a raise in this position. I normally wouldn't think about raise, except trying to think more on my own and this villain was seemingly easy money so preferred trying to get head's up. If not, good hand for multiway as well.

So my question is, why is this an overwhelming raise spot? just FmYI.

[Actuary]

It's not an overwhelming raise by any means
It depends on how the players behind you play, significantly.

I'd raise at a bad loose table and limp at a decent semi loose table

An argument for rasing hands like this is to increase your PFR%, which makes you harder to read

[cubbybri]

It's not an overwhelming raise by any means
It depends on how the players behind you play, significantly.

I'd raise at a bad loose table and limp at a decent semi loose table

An argument for rasing hands like this is to increase your PFR%, which makes you harder to read

IC, so for somone like me who is sitting VPIP(nit, ty Zach ), what should my PFR be sitting around to make my raise a little harder to read?

[Shimmering Wang]

IC, so for somone like me who is sitting VPIP(nit, ty Zach ), what should my PFR be sitting around to make my raise a little harder to read?

Just so you know, disguising your play is not the primary reason for playing more hands preflop; instead, it's to add more hands from more positions that you can play profitably.

And boosting your PFR %age disguises your hands, but more importantly it gets money in the pot in situations where you're a favorite, be it because of your holding or your ability to play better in bigger pots than your opponents.


Wang

[Actuary]

I've heard your pfr should be about 1/2 your VPIP, or slightly more.
I'm generally a 22/11 player.

and of course, Wang is correct on why you raise.

[RISEorFall]

So my question is, why is this an overwhelming raise spot? just FmYI.

its not as close as i made it sound.
i raise it everytime, but my prf% is about 13 or so. atleast it used to be, i havent checked it in a while

the main reason i raise it is because if i get a buncha folds then cool, ive got a good hand in position and i can outplay almost all of my opponents post flop

if i dont and some callers are behind me, then cool, i have a good hand that plays well multiway and I can outplay almost all of them post flop.

i realize some of this contradicts what i said about preflop in the KTs thread, but KTs is much weaker than ATs, imo

[Zach6668]

Fwiw, SSHE is a great starting point.

However, you will find as you improve your own play, develop your game, etc, that you will definitely want to deviate from what it states.

This hand is a prime example. I open raise ATs from every position, and usually raise it after even several limpers.

[RISEorFall]

I open raise ATs from every position, and always raise it after even several limpers.

this is what you meant, right?

just making sure.

[Zach6668]

this is what you meant, right?

just making sure.

Yes. I would limp A9s after several limpers though, so it's not "that" clear cut.

[Actuary]

Yes. I would limp A9s after several limpers though, so it's not "that" clear cut.

See, to me, Rasing ATs after several limpers is more clear cut than raising it after one UTG limper from UTG+1

I love to see 5 hands in the pot with ATs
I don;t always like to be HU with ATs at a table with decent players.

[cubbybri]

See, to me, Rasing ATs after several limpers is more clear cut than raising it after one UTG limper from UTG+1

I love to see 5 hands in the pot with ATs
I don;t always like to be HU with ATs at a table with decent players.

So I guess this is more dependent upon your opponents. Raising to get a poor player hU possibly and raising with better players multiway for the equity in hitting you flush and straight draws(or 2 pair depending upon texture of flop).