6 replies to this topic

[Wily]

Interesting hand in that I didn't raise on the turn, but I think I profited a lot from it from the overcalls and letting one of my opponents catch something on the river.2-4 HE game in FTP:I'm dealt 7 8 in UTG+1. I make a loose call because the game is quite loose and wild.MP and SB call, BB checks.Flop is: Q 9 6 . SB bets, all three call.Turn is: Q 9 6 10 This gives me the low straight and a flush redraw. There are no other flush draws possible, and I don't think I can fold anyone with an open-ended straight draw or a set, and certainly not anyone with a better straight (JK or J8 are possible, but they would have to call with just a gutshot on the flop). I decide to simply call and raise on the river if it appears safe.SB checks, BB bets, all three call again.River is: Q 9 6 10 3 SB bets, I raise, BB and MP fold, SB three-bets, I cap and he calls.Final pot: 16.5 BB. SB turns over 9 3 for two pair! I think that in cases like these, with a made hand on the turn and no chances for better flush draws, I go for the call instead of the raise - I doubt I would've gotten calls from MP or SB if I raised on the turn, and on the river I allowed him to catch just enough to pay me off. Thoughts/disagreement?

[Swift_Psycho]

So you wanted to give a jack the oppurtunity to draw out for just one bet on the turn? Make them pay two to do it IMO.

[Wily]

Swift_Psycho said:

So you wanted to give a jack the oppurtunity to draw out for just one bet on the turn? Make them pay two to do it IMO.

I didn't think there was much strength at all in the other players' hands on the turn, so if I raised it to 2 BB it would probably just be 2 BB for a guy with a jack and a OESD to call. Also, a guy with a jack would only have 6 effective outs, since a diamond gives me a flush. Why not wait until the river, and if a blank hits I'm almost certain to have the best hand and raise then? (I know the arguments about making them pay to draw, too .. I just didn't feel that anyone had strength this hand, and with the flush redraw I was gambling against a non-diamond K or 8 coming on the river.)

[Swift_Psycho]

Wily said:

Swift_Psycho said:

So you wanted to give a jack the oppurtunity to draw out for just one bet on the turn? Make them pay two to do it IMO.

I didn't think there was much strength at all in the other players' hands on the turn, so if I raised it to 2 BB it would probably just be 2 BB for a guy with a jack and a OESD to call. Also, a guy with a jack would only have 6 effective outs, since a diamond gives me a flush. Why not wait until the river, and if a blank hits I'm almost certain to have the best hand and raise then? (I know the arguments about making them pay to draw, too .. I just didn't feel that anyone had strength this hand, and with the flush redraw I was gambling against a non-diamond K or 8 coming on the river.)

I'm not convinced. If a blank hits on the river, you will make absolutely no more money off of those jacks that would potentially have called 2 bets on the turn to try and hit their open-ended straight draw. Now that their draws missed, of course you aren't getting any more money off them. Why wait until the river to raise when you aren't going to get paid off by those jacks anymore?

[wrto4556]

SP is right.Bump the turn.

[DCWildcat]

I agree. Raise the turn; if it is indeed fast enough for people with 93 to be calling bets like that, then you could surely squeak out one or two more.

[akishore]

i've learned to protect straights. :-) even with a flush redraw, you're giving higher straight draws, two pair, and sets cheap cards.i think you should raise the turn, as well, but i can understand your arguments.i think the thing is is that a non-nut straight plus flush redraw isn't really strong ENOUGH to slowplay. a set on a ragged flop is, you can go for overcalls on every street possibly, but i don't think this is the ideal situation.aseem